How deep to conceal carry?

[friendlyfireisnt]

IWB is, I would argue, normal concealed carry. The vast majority of us who conceal a handgun regularly carry in an IWB holster of some fashion.

I would tend to agree with that. I've been in a bar full of cops while CCW (photo assignment for a newspaper), and was never spotted while carrying IWB. Would have been much tougher had I tried to carry OWB in that crowd.

I guess what I'm asking is if concealment (for example keeping your coat zipped, ensuring the butt of the gun isn't poking out when you're bending over at the grocery store, minimal amount of printing) is absolutely necessary and what people's opinions are one way or the other. Include experiences that have influenced that decision.

I tend to have the opinion that it's important to keep your weapon concealed. When I was a photojournalist, if I got found out carrying while on assignment I was guaranteed to not get hired again.

I've also seen people who were carrying without real regard for keeping the firearm concealed, often times coupled with a lack of situational awareness. Saw one guy last year in a coffee shop that was obviously new to carrying, trying to conceal a pistol in a OWB holster under a leather jacket. Had no idea that his holster stuck out under the jacket every time he moved his right arm around or that everyone talking to him could see he was armed since from the front the jacket barely concealed the pistol. His head was on a swivel looking all around, but he wasn't seeing (processing) anything. If I was a criminal, it would have been very easy to take advantage of that knowledge.

It's really not too tough to keep a firearm hidden, the key is just being aware of when you might print or expose the firearm and altering either your mode of dress or your behavior to prevent that. Your example of bending over is a good one since if you bend at the knees you minimize the issue, or choosing a better position to have your holster will help too.

Also a good idea to know what clothes will conceal well and what prints. When I get new clothes and I am not sure if they are good for carrying or not, I ask my wife to "inspect" me. If she can't spot it while looking for it, even while I twist and bend over and raise for items up high, than I am sure that nobody else will either.

With the right choice of clothes (and a little awareness and practice ) I don't have a hard time keeping a full size 1911 concealed.

How about the assclown on a traffic stop who produced his five shot revolver from a bag on the seat ("Yes, officer. It's right here.") when I asked "I see you have a CCW permit. Are you armed today, sir?" Then actually chuckled upon seeing that I had backpedaled away, drawn and was prepared to shoot him in the face. He no longer has a permit.

I'm sure you know, but others might not, that laughter like that is often brought about by stress and nervousness. While that doesn't sound too bad, laughter at inappropriate times is often an indicator that someone is about to go against all common sense and do something completely and utterly stupid. I see this in my current work (helicopter pilot/flight instructor). When we are working on emergencies or things are getting stressful in the cockpit, a student chuckling is often a warning sign for me to get ready to take over the controls. It's a very overt sign that a person's brain is overloaded and things aren't going to function normally.

[Alpha Sierra]

OWB or IWB? The way I wear my pants I'd have to buy all larger sizes to carry IWB. Can OWB carry be just as unnoticeable in other than hot summer conditions?

That depends on your build.

For me no. Not even in winter. I carry IWB 99% of the time, even during pistol games.

[BrianS]

I moved to IWB carry and started to wear button up shirts untucked or hooded sweatshirts all the time to try to maintain full concealment. The better I get with my G19 the more I feel poorly armed with a gun that can be concealed in a pocket like a J-frame, and so I only pocket carry a smaller gun on the hottest days or if not already armed inside my house and have to go out for a quick errand, I throw the pocket holster in my front pocket. In Washington you can comfortably wear some kind of button up shirt/sweatshirt/jacket to help completely conceal a real gun IWB probably 90% of the time.

In Washington the State entirely occupies the realm of firearms law (preempts/forbids local ordinances more restrictive than the RCW), and open carry is legal, so concealment isn't really a legal issue, beyond a hassle if somebody does call the police and says you are threatening people. That has been touched on by JW777 and some others, and also the idea that you are giving up quite a big advantage in a situation where most factors are in the attackers favor because they are initiating whatever is going to go down and you are reacting. Reacting to an announcement that a robbery is going on is easier than your first warning being being shot in the back of the head because you were printing.

[Brimstone]

How about the assclown on a traffic stop who produced his five shot revolver from a bag on the seat ("Yes, officer. It's right here.") when I asked "I see you have a CCW permit. Are you armed today, sir?" Then actually chuckled upon seeing that I had backpedaled away, drawn and was prepared to shoot him in the face. He no longer has a permit.

This is why I try to avoid letting LEOs know that I am armed. They are much more apt to "shoot you in the face" over a misunderstanding. Just being in possession of a firearm, legal or not, is cause enough in many areas for an officer to draw their service weapon on you. I would rather avoid being in this situation.

I tend to conceal differently depending on where I am. In Utah (home) I don't worry about it at all. The people are used to people carrying and the LEOs aren't as jumpy. I travel for work and I tend to deep conceal more in areas where the public and law enforcement are less firearm friendly. It is a shame that we have become such a police state that in many parts of the country only LEOs are seen to have the right to defend themselves.

[DireWulf]

This is why I try to avoid letting LEOs know that I am armed. They are much more apt to "shoot you in the face" over a misunderstanding. Just being in possession of a firearm, legal or not, is cause enough in many areas for an officer to draw their service weapon on you. I would rather avoid being in this situation.

Understood. Unless the state you're in requires you to tell an officer in contact with you that you have a permit and are carrying or he or she specifically asks you if you are, I see no reason to advertise.

"What gives the cop the right to ask in the first place?", some may ask. The answer is: lots and lots of case law at the federal and state level. Cops can ask questions and those questions can address safety issues for him or her. Telling the truth is always a good call in that situation. Except for the reasons mentioned, I'd keep it to myself.

I just had that situation a few days ago. As a retired officer, I have credentials that allow me to carry concealed in all 50 states. (Even California. Sorry, Feinstein) I was driving a car that I'm fixing up for my daughter to emissions testing. It can't be registered until it passes, so the plates are expired and I have a temporary registration. I was pulled over by the local police and after seeing my temporary documentation, the officer sent me on my way. I wasn't asked if I was carrying and made no mention because the law in my state says I don't have to. No issues.

[PieceKeeper]

In Washington the State entirely occupies the realm of firearms law (preempts/forbids local ordinances more restrictive than the RCW), and open carry is legal, so concealment isn't really a legal issue, beyond a hassle if somebody does call the police and says you are threatening people.

^^^This idea is what I believe has largly led to my lax concealed carry habbits. I always thought "it's legal so what's it matter if someone notices?"

That said, after reading the responses here, I dusted off the Supertuck and carried my Glock 19 IWB even though I'm bundled up like an Eskimo today.

[Buckaroo]

I got made (called on carrying) by an FBI agent at church last Sunday. This was the first time a non-friend had noticed and said something to me. We have a portable church and were loading out the equipment. He just asked what department I worked for and when I replied that I was just a citizen he was totally cool about it. I knew he carried and assumed he was LE because he carried OWB (Fobus holster) and has a set of cuffs on his belt too. Very noticeable. Although he does wear a vest it is too short to cover all of the holster and rides up revealing the cuffs.

I carry IWB and wear a vest during the cooler months (as I was Sunday) and a untucked shirt most of the rest of the year. I also can tuck my shirt with my IWB holster and have never had anyone mention my weapon to me when doing so.

I have a SmartCarry (SC) and pocket holsters for "deep" concealment. They have their place when one needs to not be discovered. I like pocket carry a lot better but I can carry a larger weapon with the SC.

To me it is all about my perceived risk of the consequences of being "made." I carry everywhere I can legally. I want the element of surprise and to not cause the sheep to be disturbed. I am sure that many of my daughters' friends would not be able to come to our house to play if their parents knew I carried.

Just my random thoughts.

Buckaroo

[Appalachian]

A relevant thing happened at work yesterday, I was talking to one of my buds that works on another team. We were BSing and he said "hey have you met "Larry" that works for me"? I told him I had not. He proceeded to tell me how he was a freaky dude and was actually scary. Next statement from my friend was "yeah, he has a concealed carry permit". (None of us can carry at work, we work on post). His point through the conversation was that he was dangerous/ scary BECAUSE he had a permit, not because he was unstable and also had the permit. I just smiled to myself and thought - "if you only knew"
Just reinforcement that you should and must conceal it at all times. Not only physically concealed, but keep 'yer trap shut also. One should not try to boost their ego by declaring they can carry. Just as stupid as physically not covering your piece. I always do the internal head shake when someone tells me "they have a permit".

[Everyday3]

So very true, Ive opened mouth never again you wont be looked at the same. Tell some one you have an ar for home defence and training and your looked at like a home grown terrorist. Now i only talk to people at the range or my shooting buddies and other wise keep my mouth shut about shooting or what I carry.

A relevant thing happened at work yesterday, I was talking to one of my buds that works on another team. We were BSing and he said "hey have you met "Larry" that works for me"? I told him I had not. He proceeded to tell me how he was a freaky dude and was actually scary. Next statement from my friend was "yeah, he has a concealed carry permit". (None of us can carry at work, we work on post). His point through the conversation was that he was dangerous/ scary BECAUSE he had a permit, not because he was unstable and also had the permit. I just smiled to myself and thought - "if you only knew"
Just reinforcement that you should and must conceal it at all times. Not only physically concealed, but keep 'yer trap shut also. One should not try to boost their ego by declaring they can carry. Just as stupid as physically not covering your piece. I always do the internal head shake when someone tells me "they have a permit".

[BAC]

That depends on your build.

This is a big one for me, and why I'd like to move away from the full-sized 1911. I love the pistol and can conceal it reasonably well, but for my body type and most weather in Florida it's too much pistol. Something CCO-sized would be perfect for general carry. I'm still back and forth between a Kahr and a snubby revolver for deep concealment.


-B