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Thread: Gas to Piston

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coleslaw View Post
    Dude, I think it is pretty clear you have little or no experience with a piston system....
    I'm basing my opinion completely on my experience with them, not just "well I read...." I'm very biased against them now, after using them. They've caused more problems for me than fixes. Maybe it's the particular system I've had the most experience with (adams arms), maybe not. But some of the issues with it are inherent in the piston AR concept. Carrier tilt, bolt cam pin dragging causing a significant increase in wear in the upper, the piston system affecting the timing on full-auto fire causing it to cycle too fast and click on an empty chamber, the bolt carrier being too large in the rear (to accomodate for carrier tilt) to properly fit and cycle in some buffer tubes, systems being problematic on short barrels, only working with 2 rail systems, and bushings/sleeves coming loose in the upper receiver causing cycling to stop, are all things I've run into with piston systems. And noticeably stiffer recoil. What are you basing your opinions on?

    And adding more places on the rifle that need cleaning, making it more time consuming for me. But I've read online that they're easier to clean.
    Last edited by Sanpete; 01-11-11 at 10:40.

  2. #32
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    My experience with the LWRCi system says that they're cool, and one that's well made (IE: LWRCi, or LMT) will work well.

    But there is absolutely no reason for them to even exist.
    We miss you, AC.
    We miss you, ToddG.

  3. #33
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    NICE, NICE write-up Molon! Thank you for posting it... very informative and goes to show the weaknesses of the Ares system.

    Any chance you're going to do a similar write-up on the Adams Arms system? Lots of companies are using that now and it seems to be the most popular of the conversion kits.

    Thanks!

  4. #34
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    Very interesting and thank you for your work.......I'm not familiar with the piston conversions and i want to know if (when firing) the op rod pushes on the carrier key and continues to push it until the rearmost of the cycle and then returns OR does the op rod just violently smack the carrier key at the beginning of the cycle and the momentum cycles the bcg??? Thank you

  5. #35
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    I didn't have such good luck with the ARES kit. Mine shit the bed in less than 600 rounds when used on a full auto lower.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...highlight=ARES
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtyboy333 View Post
    Very interesting and thank you for your work.......I'm not familiar with the piston conversions and i want to know if (when firing) the op rod pushes on the carrier key and continues to push it until the rearmost of the cycle and then returns OR does the op rod just violently smack the carrier key at the beginning of the cycle and the momentum cycles the bcg??? Thank you
    Short stroke piston systems operate off inertia, (just smacking the BCG), long stroke systems feature oprods that are somehow attatched to or part of the BCG. Neither is generally better than the other, each are produced by decent and not so decent manufacturers alike. Short stroke systems are a bit more popular than long stroke systems for use on ARs.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveOh417 View Post
    Any major pros or cons? Am I better off not messing with it?
    The smarter conversion is going piston to gas. Less problems by far with direct gas, Babe.

  8. #38
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    I actually like both systems, I think they both have their pros and cons and while I believe there is nothing wrong with the DI system, I also have seen first hand how simple some pistons systems are, such as the Osprey Defense one and I myself want a Colt 6520 w/ Osprey Defense piston kit for a KISS carbine. I don't see how the gas piston kit, whether retrofit or factory, can be detrimental to reliability if designed correctly. As for factory pistons, the ones I like best are the offerings by LMT and LWRC.

  9. #39
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    1st can I ask why your interested in doing the switch? The gun giving you problems etc.? If you just want a piston system I would suggest buying a gun designed around the piston system.
    Just to add if you have a good DI gun already why mess with it?
    I own a LWRC with zero problems and over 10k rounds. So take everything you read in hear as an opinion, there's some very biased people on this forum.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robb Jensen View Post
    I didn't have such good luck with the ARES kit. Mine shit the bed in less than 600 rounds when used on a full auto lower.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...highlight=ARES
    They replaced your bent parts correct?

    The Bushmaster version of this system has a clamp that holds the piston housing in alignment over the barrel. When I installed mine, a buddy made a solid steel pin to replace the roll pin as a "just incase" measure. We were a couple thousandths off and the pin actually backed out during firing but the clamp held everything in place. Later replaced with a larger solid steel pin.

    If you can work on your firearms a retrofit system is easily a doable project.

    For all the nay sayers I say THANK YOU ! ! ! I LOVE mine and have two more systems sitting in boxes ready to go. People bought them and never installed them because they had read negative comments on them and sold them off cheap.

    I have run my system for well over 3 thousand rounds. In that time I experienced three failures and they were in the first 2000 rounds with NONE SINCE.

    In the first 2000 rounds fired, which was a mix of Wolf 75 grain, Privi 75 grain and some PMC bronze, these were the faliures.

    1. Double feed from a Beta C that hasn't been graphited since I got it. I will choke that one to the mag.

    2. Stuck Case of Wolf 75 grain. This was after firing 500 rounds of the stuff with out scrubbing the chamber. I am going to say that was my fault for not swabbing the chamber sooner when shooting Wolf for practice ammo.

    3. Double feed from a brand new GI OKO magazine that had never been run before.

    All three failures I think I can safely say were not the fault of the piston system. I like piston systems and I don't feel they are a step down from the Current DI/Piston inside to bolt.

    The problems with them have been addressed

    Carrier tilt? Seth Harnesses buffer.

    Wear in the upper from the cam pin? POF roller cam pin.

    If your worried about possible break down in the system, by some spare parts. If your still worried about it keep the DI parts on hand to convert back if the world is gonna end.

    All in all the piston in an AR platform is in MY OPINION an improvement.

    IPSC_GUY
    SIERRA II ALPHA

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