CNN's medical expert on Rep. Giffords' wounds

[RWK]

"As clearly illustrated in the relevant scientific literature over the past 20 years, kinetic energy or momentum transfer from a projectile to tissue is not a wounding mechanism."

Dr. G.K. Roberts

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What, wait... you mean to say that CNN's medical guru doesn't know what he's talking about?

Finally, someone sees the reason behind my post.

[bernieb90]

I heard this morning from a doctor on the radio that the bullet traversed the left lobe of her brain, and then exited. This appeared to have allowed her to preserve as much function as she has. He stated that if the bullet had traversed rboth lobes of the brain she would be in much more trouble. Luckily the human waste that shot her was not able to hit the Medula Oblongata which would have killed her instantly.

I recall watching a television program that showed a young boy hit in the head with shotgun. Despite the complete loss of half his brain he had full language, and cognitive ability. The human body is remarkably fragile, and remarkably resilient at the same time.

May all those wounded make a speedy recovery, and RIP to all those killed.

[Hmac]

"As clearly illustrated in the relevant scientific literature over the past 20 years, kinetic energy or momentum transfer from a projectile to tissue is not a wounding mechanism."

Dr. G.K. Roberts


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I don't believe that applies to brain tissue (different elasticity) in a closed cavity like the cranium, but I'd be interested to see any info you have that states otherwise.

[Hmac]

Unless I've misunderstood Duncan McPherson's book and the other terminal ballistics literature I've read, I believe you are incorrect on this one.

Like I said the TC and crush cavity are the only wounding mechanisms and the TC should be identical if the bullet exits or not. I mention TC here because I do believe that brain tissue would be consider inelastic tissue.

Had to add all this is assuming that the projectile shape is the same for the one exiting the cranium and the one not exiting. That's to say both are non deformed FMJs or both are expanded HPs.

I agree that velocity is more important than energy in most parts of the body, but brain tissue is far less elastic than other soft tissue and the consequences of otherwise trivial disruption far more devastating to the victim. Likewise, the cranium is a small cavity with rigid constraints. The consequences of any energy dissipation in the head are going to be different than, say, in the chest or abdomen...again, because of the nature of the tissue, its function, and the space where it lives.

But, you could be right...I may be wrong. My opinion is based on a lecture I attended a few years ago as assistant coroner for this county and I can't lay my hands on it right now.

[Shawn Dodson]

There are two factors that lead me to suspect the ammo used in the shooting was FMJ:

1. The description of Giffords' wound*
2. The kind of ammo used doesn't appear to be "newsworthy".

Note that the killed/wounded percentage (30%) is the same as the Ft. Hood shootings, in which 5.7x28mm was used.

*It's also possible that a JHP bullet may have produced the relatively mild wound (given the location of the wound) if it was damaged during the collision with dense cranium bone at the beginning of the wound track and did not expand.

[Gunfighter 9]

So, CNN can detail it but nobody else? Take off the tinfoil my friend.

Well CNN is a news agency, and its not appropriate for them to be discussing it either. However, CNN is not concerned with protecting gun rights in America either. In fact morose discussions about the specifics of her injuries play to their agenda of fear mongering. In my previous post I was raising a legitimate concern about wether or not this is an appropriate discussion. I am not a conspiracy theory nut job but thanks so much for jumping to that conclusion. Discussing theories on what kind of ammo this whack job used makes us look like a bunch of wierdos as a community. It is unfortunate enough that the media will strive to portray all gun owners as being just like the shooter in this case. Furthermore, does it really matter what type of ammo he used? We are talking about the unwarranted shooting of a human being not some ****ing physics experiment. Try to show a little compassion for Christ's sakes

[Shawn Dodson]

http://www.uthr.org/SpecialReports/M...ton%20case.txt

[Hmac]

Well CNN is a news agency, and its not appropriate for them to be discussing it either. However, CNN is not concerned with protecting gun rights in America either. In fact morose discussions about the specifics of her injuries play to their agenda of fear mongering. In my previous post I was raising a legitimate concern about wether or not this is an appropriate discussion. I am not a conspiracy theory nut job but thanks so much for jumping to that conclusion. Discussing theories on what kind of ammo this whack job used makes us look like a bunch of wierdos as a community. It is unfortunate enough that the media will strive to portray all gun owners as being just like the shooter in this case. Furthermore, does it really matter what type of ammo he used? We are talking about the unwarranted shooting of a human being not some ****ing physics experiment. Try to show a little compassion for Christ's sakes

[Molon]

Originally posted by Molon:

"As clearly illustrated in the relevant scientific literature over the past 20 years, kinetic energy or momentum transfer from a projectile to tissue is not a wounding mechanism."

Dr. G.K. Roberts

I don't believe that applies to brain tissue (different elasticity) in a closed cavity like the cranium, but I'd be interested to see any info you have that states otherwise.

Ass-backwards. If you're going to contradict Dr. G.K. Roberts, one of the foremost experts on terminal ballistics in this country, it is incumbent upon you, to post factual data or credible scientific references to support your position. It doesn't matter what you do or don't "believe". This is a technical forum and only facts matter here.



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[RWK]

Well CNN is a news agency, and its not appropriate for them to be discussing it either. However, CNN is not concerned with protecting gun rights in America either. In fact morose discussions about the specifics of her injuries play to their agenda of fear mongering. In my previous post I was raising a legitimate concern about wether or not this is an appropriate discussion.

When you have "moderator" or "staff" under your user name you can decide what is or is not appropriate for the community here to discuss. In the meantime, you can report it as inappropriate if you so choose.

This is a discussion forum about terminal ballistics. Facts: someone was shot at close range; the 9mm projectile passed through the brain; the victim survived. I think every aspect of this is extremely valuable and interesting to anyone who studies or has an interest in the field. Medical researchers across the country are discussing the very same things right now.