Couple questions on 6920 setup (optics mainly)

[Q-Gunner2]

Hey guys,


I got a little bit of time and money while classes are more in my area of expertise and am taking some time to finally set up my Colt. I was in contact with a friend of mine over the rifle, and have picked out most of the gear, I just wanted to get a lot of opinions on the optic because I have no clue what I want for it and it is hard to decide when you don't know what you are looking for.


First off: I am never going to be in an offensive situation, the rifle will be for home defense and farm use (to 400 yards). I need something that can be extremely fast for CQB without training every two months, but is extremely reliable. I would prefer being able to use it to a distance, but close range is king. I would prefer being able to co-witness just in case, but after realizing that the TR-21s AND the ACOGs are no go, I am up to going with whatever works and a LaRue QD mount.


So far on the list:

DD 7.0 Omega
DD foregrip
VLTOR offset G2 mount (and the Surefire to go with it)
VLTOR E-mod
Magpul MIAD grip
Troy BUIS rear (stock F marked FSB will be kept for the front)


And now:

Trijicon TR-21?
Trijicon TR-24?
Aimpoint M3?
Aimpoint M4?
Trijicon ACOG type whatever? 1.5x, probably with a 5.56mm BDC and Chevrons


I do like the reticule pictured below, larger dot and smaller blocks clouding up the FOV, but it doesn't seem to be an accurate representation of the reticule.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=210228261


Also, if it matters, I am planning on getting PPU 75gr. BTHPs for the rifle.



Thanks for any help you guys can give!

[kwelz]

Well I have an Aimpoint Micro, a Micro ACOG and a TR24.

Of the three my least favorite is the Aimpoint Micro.

I just find the ACOG and the TR24 easier to use even in a Close environment. The 1.5 magnification isn't enough to really interfere with shooting both eyes open and the 1x on the TR24 is really close to 1X.

ETA:

I have the green triangle version of the TR24 and the Dot in Circle for the Micro ACOG.

Check out different reticle types before you buy. A lot of people have trouble with the amber dot being to faint.

[Q-Gunner2]

Thank you for your reply- I am not set on any color dot, I was just curious if that reticule type was an option. I looked at the triangle version... do the thick lines under the triangle give you issues with Kentucky elevation? It looks like it would make the target harder to see when holding high, which was a concern of mine.

I am going to get an Aimpoint micro, but, for a SBR... it looks great for a compact, low mounted functional optic but lacking for a full-size carbine with potential beyond 100 yards.


Again I am not really SET on any one optic, I just know I am looking to avoid EOTechs and lower end stuff. I have seen other good names mentioned- Kahles for instance- and am listening if anyone has experience that leads them to suggest another type.

[Alaskapopo]

Hey guys,


I got a little bit of time and money while classes are more in my area of expertise and am taking some time to finally set up my Colt. I was in contact with a friend of mine over the rifle, and have picked out most of the gear, I just wanted to get a lot of opinions on the optic because I have no clue what I want for it and it is hard to decide when you don't know what you are looking for.


First off: I am never going to be in an offensive situation, the rifle will be for home defense and farm use (to 400 yards). I need something that can be extremely fast for CQB without training every two months, but is extremely reliable. I would prefer being able to use it to a distance, but close range is king. I would prefer being able to co-witness just in case, but after realizing that the TR-21s AND the ACOGs are no go, I am up to going with whatever works and a LaRue QD mount.


So far on the list:

DD 7.0 Omega
DD foregrip
VLTOR offset G2 mount (and the Surefire to go with it)
VLTOR E-mod
Magpul MIAD grip
Troy BUIS rear (stock F marked FSB will be kept for the front)


And now:

Trijicon TR-21?
Trijicon TR-24?
Aimpoint M3?
Aimpoint M4?
Trijicon ACOG type whatever? 1.5x, probably with a 5.56mm BDC and Chevrons


I do like the reticule pictured below, larger dot and smaller blocks clouding up the FOV, but it doesn't seem to be an accurate representation of the reticule.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=210228261


Also, if it matters, I am planning on getting PPU 75gr. BTHPs for the rifle.



Thanks for any help you guys can give!

Wait for what happens at the Shot Show word is there are some new Accupoints coming out. But from what is on your list the TR24 would be my pick. Next up would be the TA 33 ACOG with the Horseshoe reticle.

Don't worry about co-witness. You can always get off set irons like this.



There is even a ready made version out.

http://www.dueckdefense.com/store/sh...cat=Gun+Sights

[Failure2Stop]

Aimpoint C3.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70924

Unless you want magnification, in which case the first question becomes, "How much are you willing to spend?".

[dakotalawdog]

Hey guys,
First off: I am never going to be in an offensive situation, the rifle will be for home defense and farm use (to 400 yards). I need something that can be extremely fast for CQB without training every two months, but is extremely reliable. I would prefer being able to use it to a distance, but close range is king. I would prefer being able to co-witness just in case, but after realizing that the TR-21s AND the ACOGs are no go, I am up to going with whatever works and a LaRue QD mount.


So far on the list:

DD 7.0 Omega
DD foregrip
VLTOR offset G2 mount (and the Surefire to go with it)
VLTOR E-mod
Magpul MIAD grip
Troy BUIS rear (stock F marked FSB will be kept for the front)

I would really check out the Aimpoint Micro RDS, though any of the Aimpoints are great. That would be your best choice for CQB / home defense IMHO. Aimpoints are ultra-reliable, you can leave them on at all times for years, and you can engage man sized targets out to 300-400 yards. You're not going to be drilling prairie dogs with a 4MOA dot at 300 yards, but for a general purpose 16" fighting gun, you can't get any better.

The Accupoints are great optics, and if longer range shooting is more important to you, it is a good compromise - but you are still looking through a long narrow tube, and you still have to make sure your reticle is centered. The Tr24 is great, but still slower in CQB than an RDS in my experience. RDS especially shine when you're shooting from odd positions around cover (broke back prone, support side, etc)

Keep it light, keep it reliable, keep it accurate. The rest of your setup sounds like a solid, lightweight, fighting rifle.

[Alaskapopo]

I would really check out the Aimpoint Micro RDS, though any of the Aimpoints are great. That would be your best choice for CQB / home defense IMHO. Aimpoints are ultra-reliable, you can leave them on at all times for years, and you can engage man sized targets out to 300-400 yards. You're not going to be drilling prairie dogs with a 4MOA dot at 300 yards, but for a general purpose 16" fighting gun, you can't get any better.

The Accupoints are great optics, and if longer range shooting is more important to you, it is a good compromise - but you are still looking through a long narrow tube, and you still have to make sure your reticle is centered. The Tr24 is great, but still slower in CQB than an RDS in my experience. RDS especially shine when you're shooting from odd positions around cover (broke back prone, support side, etc)

Keep it light, keep it reliable, keep it accurate. The rest of your setup sounds like a solid, lightweight, fighting rifle.

If you keep both eyes open the tube effect is no more severe than any other tube sight like an Aimpoint micro. In my experience they are not slower at cqb. The red dots are better for awkward positional shooting but that is about their only edge.


Some videos to prove it. Simple CQB drill. 3 targets at 7 yards 2 shots each.

Colt with Aimpoint M4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFlJVVZDx68

Noveske with T1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNzl_MOdG0o

Colt with TR24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwtbL0tTirg

[dakotalawdog]

If you keep both eyes open the tube effect is no more severe than any other tube sight like an Aimpoint micro. In my experience they are not slower at cqb. The red dots are better for awkward positional shooting but that is about their only edge.

Like I said, just my experience, just my opinion. There are some people who feel an EOTech is faster than an Aimpoint b/c its not a "tube." I shoot them about the same. Some people find the fixed 4 power ACOGs easy to shoot at CQB ranges with both eyes open. Personally, I don't.

The one thing I noticed in the videos is you are starting with the rifle mounted in your shoulder at a low ready position. You have a very short distance to move the gun to your eye. Running the same drills from an indoor ready position or something, and you might notice more of a difference. Or, maybe not....

For a defensive gun, keeping things consistent is a good thing. With the RDS and traditional co-witnessed irons (exact co-witness or even lower 1/3), you can mount the gun the same way, nose to charging handle, every time to get a consistent cheek weld. I do like the offset irons for multi-gun, but its another thing you have train with. On the two way range, I think the KISS factor rules, especially for someone who may not be training as much.

I think you need to think hard about what you want to accomplish. I feel, for a gun whose primary purpose is CQB, you can't beat the RDS. I don't know of any team or unit that uses variable power optics over RDS for CQB work and I think that counts for something. However, if 300-400 yard shooting, whether defensive or just for fun is a significant component to your project, then yeah, the variable power optic would make sense. Shooting long range with magnification is a blast. If that's something you really want to do, that's fine - but there's no free lunch. You're going to lose something, somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I think the TR24 is a great optic. Its a great value, and as variable power optics go, its the closest to being like a RDS that I've ever shot. Of course, you can always sell something if you don't like it, or like me, end up buying one of each anyways.

I was going to add this too https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70458. Pretty good points on both sides.

[Q-Gunner2]

Well, I don't know if I am too confident in having an Aimpoint with a flip-out magnifier... it seems like the magnifier could be broken and adds crap onto the gun.


I really like the thought of the TR-24, most of its life would be on the 1.25x but the magnification would be a plus for longer shots for fun.

Is there a reticule like the one I posted on the GB link? A large dot to follow for close range but more room in the reticule for Kentucky elevation?


Also, is there a big difference in speed using the TR-24? I don't know if I should lean towards that or the ACOG.

[Alaskapopo]

Well, I don't know if I am too confident in having an Aimpoint with a flip-out magnifier... it seems like the magnifier could be broken and adds crap onto the gun.


I really like the thought of the TR-24, most of its life would be on the 1.25x but the magnification would be a plus for longer shots for fun.

Is there a reticule like the one I posted on the GB link? A large dot to follow for close range but more room in the reticule for Kentucky elevation?


Also, is there a big difference in speed using the TR-24? I don't know if I should lean towards that or the ACOG.

The TR24 is a 1- 4 scope. The TR21 is a 1.25 to 4 scope. The TR24 is a 30mm tube and the TR21 is a 1 inch tube. I have both scopes. The TR24 is a bit better overall.
pat