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Thread: Billet lowers...Spikes or Mega

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by smschulz View Post
    Perhaps 'finish' but I would have to disagree with you about 'fit'.
    Care to describe what you mean? An acceptable amount of play between the upper and lower is normal. If you have to use anything other than your fingers to push out your takedown pin then it's too tight.
    Only hits count......you can not miss fast enough to catch up

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    Though not necessary at all, I think going billet vs forged is worth the extra scratch. The finish and fit is flawless. The upper and lower fit together as if they were a single piece of aluminum.

    http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=79508
    Exactly....people who want a billet lower are concerned with the so called "fit and finish" first and foremost.

    Thanks for being honest...however in technical terms your definition of flawless "fit" is just the opposite. It's easy for folks who have no intention of ever field stripping in harms way an AR 15 to want a super tight upper and lower and then requiring a special tool or something in order to pop the pins is no biggie. These billet lowers are straight boutique...look at who makes them, Larue..Spikes..Mega...POF...etc. Compare those billet lowers with the premium forged like KAC, LMT, Colt, BCM, DD...etc. Nuff said, one side is for pros, the other side is for joe's who like to look cool and pay a premium for so called fit and finish.
    Last edited by ALCOAR; 04-24-11 at 12:31.

  3. #43
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    I couldn't care less what people buy. We see it all the time here people buying this and that, whether it's boutique or considered hard use, then go apeshit with posting pictures where a year later the rifle looks exactly the same as day one because they don't actually use it, so do whatever you want.

    The problem I have with this is guys spouting off bad information. A tight fit will do nothing here. So what if it has no play. Even 2 of my Nighthawks have play, I couldn't care less. But don't come here saying how billet is superior or it's better because it's tighter or the finish is a little more consistent... If you really use your rifle, that finish will be gone in a month.

    I don't care how you try to word it, billet was a fad and is more for the "keep it shiny and take a bunch of pics" crowd than the guys that actually use them.

    I'm sure a billet lower will serve many just fine. Some I'm sure are good quality. Hell, I might pick up one of those new PredatARs just to try it out. But we need to be honest with ourselves here. There is no advantage to a billet lower. It's just usually more money for less durability. I see so many saying that the lower is a low stress part. That may be the case in general terms, but my guns take serious hits at times and given the choice, I want the most durable product.

    I can give a few examples of how that much needed tight fit can work against you. All I've ever seen a tight fitting AR do is cause more issues with absolutely no gain in accuracy.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 04-24-11 at 12:50.

  4. #44
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    Arrow

    IF I was going to own a billet again, it'd be a Gen.III/IV POF lower, because of the ambi-bolt release. I like that it's built into the lower right where your trigger finger indexes, which makes more sense to me than a BAD lever or equivalent.

    Only problem was, my POF lower was sticky even with Revision M PMags. One reason among others, why I don't own it anymore.
    - Either you're part of the problem or you're part of the solution or you're just part of the landscape - Sam (Robert DeNiro) in, "Ronin" -

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by amac View Post
    So vie got my upper on order, now for the lower. I'm looking into billet lowers. I've found Spikes and Mega (rainier arms ). Give me the skinny, PLEASE.

    They look very similar, but Mega runs $130 less. Tell me what i need to know. Thanks.
    The Mega is cheaper because it doesn't buy you a membership to the Spikes fanboi club. Avoid anything from spikes as it's probably a waste of money. Recently they have gotten exceptionally creative at separating unsuspecting buyers from their money. WTF is an "enhanced" LPK? I was unaware that the lower parts in an AR needed enhancing?

    I would get a standard forged lower from a reputable manufacturer and a good LPK such as a Stag/CMT, LMT, Colt, DD or G&R. Billet lowers are a complete waste of money. They do nothing except empty more of your wallet.
    Last edited by Mr. Goodtimes; 04-24-11 at 19:10.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdrunk View Post
    You are right, I would much prefer a loose and sloppy fit with undurable, uneven finish. Also, spare me about tight tolerances not being great with dirt, grit, grime,etc. I get all that and it is not a concern of mine for this rifle. This time around I wanted to build something purdy. I am more excited about my in-progress not so purdy M4 build though.
    I said nothing about "loose and sloppy fit" or "undurable or uneven finish." I simply stated that the "fit and finish" crowd making claims that both of these items are necessary to have a quality weapon is not based in facts. A certain amount of play between the upper and lower is allowed and does not affect function of the weapon. Any weapon that gets used will have finish wear.

    I didn't say you had to be concerned about dirt, grit, and grime and with you saying you wanted to build a "purdy" rifle that tells me all I need to know regarding your intended purposes for this showpiece (rifle). As I said there are no benefits (based on actual facts) that shows were billet has a distinct advantage over a quality forged lower other than inflated price, proprietary parts, and internet cool factor status that comes with ownership of said lower. I agree that you will have a well fit and nicely finished lower where the tones of black will match perfectly and you will have to use a punch and hammer to take the showpiece (rifle) apart and people will be wowed with your bang stick. If that is all that matters to you and you have the extra change to drop (and you don't need more ammo, mags, quality training, etc.) then by all means drive on. Just don't expect everyone to jump on the bandwagon.

    And don't throw your opinion around and then throw the "spare me" card when it is questioned. That makes you look butt hurt. Just state the facts of why you feel billet is better or worth the extra money.
    Only hits count......you can not miss fast enough to catch up

  7. #47
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    Gotta love how someone comes to M4C, declares their primary reason for owning/building an AR is for "purdy", than tries to sell the snake oil it's made of in order to justify it's existence among actual real world ARs.

    If your gunning for "purdy" than you should try the kiddie site...or better yet, go with airsoft. You're free to put glitter and gold stars on your gun if you want...you can even sing about how awesome it is, but you cannot however sprinkle suger on shit, and then expect for M4C to gobble it up.

    I'd also suggest that you might wanna check the ole' attitude when a moderator try's to give you advice.

  8. #48
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    Fit & finish is very important to the proper functioning of an AR. While most think it means "Tight fit and purdy make-up", nothing could be further from the truth.

    When talking about an AR, fit isn't just the lock-up between the upper & lower. Fit is how parts fit to the upper or the lower. I'm sure we all understand what happens when a magazine doesn't fit or fire control group pins don't line up in a lower, or when barrel or receiver extension threads are mis-aligned in an upper. It's the fit of the AR that makes it simple to swap parts and to be so easily configured.

    Ok, so fit does matter. What about finish? Nothing about finish makes our AR better, right?

    Wrong. AR receivers are made of aluminum alloy and require a finish of the proper anodizing to harden the surfaces for better durability and to provide corrosion control. Rough machining marks and over-runs can create stress risers and a rough surface makes it harder to evenly apply the anodizing. The anodizing also has to be deep enough to perform it's function.

    Next time someone comes on talking about wanting a tight fit and purdy make-up, don't tell them fit & finish isn't important. Tell them what fit & finish is. If they still can't see past paying for a tight fit and purdy make-up, tell them to try Las Vegas
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

  9. #49
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    What you're talking about is what makes a rifle being built to spec. Anyone with half a brain knows that if the rifle is built out of spec then the "fit and finish" will be affected.

    What is tiresome is the people who build a rifle and brags about "fit and finish" because what is almost certain to be the next sentence? "The upper and lower fit together tight without any play and the finish is a nice deep black and the two halves matched perfectly."

    If your rifle is built and finished to spec then "fit and finish" is a non issue. That is what I'm saying.

    You described a quality rifle built to spec not a "I bought (insert designer upper/lower combo here) and the fit and finish is amazing!". Insert stereotypical second sentence here.

    You and I are on the same page. The "fit and finish" crowd are talking about something completely different.
    Only hits count......you can not miss fast enough to catch up

  10. #50
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    Swatcop1911, my post wasn't aimed at anyone specific, just trying to get folks to look at fit & finish in the proper light. I agree with you that we're on the same page.

    Still think if a feller wants to pay for a tight fit and top color to match the bottom color along with purdy make-up, there are establishments in Las Vegas that can find the right girl to accommodate him
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

    http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n289/SgtSongDog/AR%20Carbine/DSC_0114.jpg
    I am American

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