Women in combat arms MOS's

[Hmac]

The only way this might be a good idea is if they had the same physical standards for both men and women.

Just as in law enforcement or firefighting, I wouldn't want anyone working next to me unless I knew they had met the same physical testing standards as me, and would be capable of dragging my ass out of harm's way if I go down.

[jklaughrey]

Lil Lebowski summed it up pretty much. When we get women who think they can piss fire and do a man's job on SRT. We give them a small test. Drag a 200lb dummy 50yds. I can honestly say only 1 was able to accomplish the task in 14 years. Then the real testing began. We have had male deputies and officers try that can't do things, why would we expect a woman too. Standards are here for a reason. To give the members of a unit a baseline of expectation of whom they serve with. If someone comes to your unit, you expect them to meet the minimum needs of said unit. If not they wouldn't have graduated and be serving along side you.

Putting women in Combat Arms is like the Navy using dolphins as combatants! A fool's folly.

[Army Chief]

I train my sons to be godly men with a warrior's spirit. However, my wife and I train our daughter to be a godly woman that will be a great wife and mother. My boys may see the battlefield one day, but not my daughter.

Thank you for this.

AC

[Belmont31R]

I'd take a female battle buddy, treat her with the same respect I would treat a male battle buddy, and would back her up 100%.

I think there are many women that would make fine combat Soldiers.

However, everyone needs to put their army values first and keep them there if woman are in combat arms.

Last I checked, ****ing, flirting, sucking, infidelity, pregnancy and rape don't appear in LDRSHIP.

There are already women out there doing their thing. Give them a little more room to show what they can do and we might all be surprised.

Even under ideal conditions there are still problems like female hygeine.



I posted a report a couple months ago in another thread but huge numbers of females end up pregnant, they go on sick call 3X the rate men do, ect.


While I think we can all recognize there are a small numbers of females who could do the job pretty well the vast majority can't. There are a lot of mans who cannot. You'd be effectively lowering the bar, and infantry/combat arms would become less effective.

[variablebinary]

Even under ideal conditions there are still problems like female hygeine.



I posted a report a couple months ago in another thread but huge numbers of females end up pregnant, they go on sick call 3X the rate men do, ect.


While I think we can all recognize there are a small numbers of females who could do the job pretty well the vast majority can't. There are a lot of mans who cannot. You'd be effectively lowering the bar, and infantry/combat arms would become less effective.

I think the female hygiene issue is overstated.

Change underwear, give yourself a baby wipe bath, bury tampons and pads if needed, and drive on.

In my unit we are broken into two parts; strategic and tactical. Woman are not currently allowed to deploy in tactical roles, only strategic. However, we have had FTX with females, and they tend to have their own tricks of the trade when it comes to hygiene.

The implementation and execution are what will determine success or failure for combat arms females. It may not make sense for females to be 11B or 18C, but what about 19K, 14T or 14J

[Armati]

I was a 19D in the first Gulf War. I spent 45 days on a screen line in the open desert waiting the war to start. No shower, no bathroom, no internet, no TV, no MWR, no gym. Running water consisted of your buddy pouring a 5 gallon water can on you from the top of the tank. Out of a combination of necessity and boredom, we dug a slit trench latrine in the bottom of a 6 foot deep fighting position - all with hand tools. It gave you some privacy, blocked the wind, kept sand from blowing up you ass, and was pretty hygienic. In most cases, privacy was nonexistent.

Back in the old days, 45 and 60 'field problems' were the norm and soldiers learned how to actually live in the field like a wild animal. If someone went to the rear for some reason, you could smell the soap on them for over 15m away. In most cases, Combat Arms soldiers did not get to go to the rear. In REMF units, going in for a shower every few days was pretty much the norm - especially if that unit had females.

Again, in this current war, most females are doing a fine job. But they are leaving the wire on a convoy and return to the FOB by night fall. They are not spending days on end in 'field conditions.' I cannot stress enough how different life is for soldiers who have a permanent address at a FOB and those who are living at one of these remote COPs.

Seriously, check out the movie Restrepo to see what I am talking about.

[Thomas M-4]

What happens when the female gets captured everybody that we fight has no Idea what the Geneva convention is or even how to spell it . Is the American population ready to see a female dragged necked through the streets beheaded on TV? Or the other nasty shit that would happen?

[Heavy Metal]

Strap another 70 pounds on those two and road march them 20 miles in a day and I will be suprised if they make it.

Operating out of a mechanized vehicle in an urban area is a world different than operating on foot on an Afghan mountain range. Combat arms has to be able to do both.

I'd take a female battle buddy, treat her with the same respect I would treat a male battle buddy, and would back her up 100%.

I think there are many women that would make fine combat Soldiers.

However, everyone needs to put their army values first and keep them there if woman are in combat arms.

Last I checked, ****ing, flirting, sucking, infidelity, pregnancy and rape don't appear in LDRSHIP.

There are already women out there doing their thing. Give them a little more room to show what they can do and we might all be surprised.

but what about 19K

It takes a lot of upper body strength to be a Tanker. There are lots of heavy chores on a Tank when it comes to maintaining the beast. Tankers are part mechanics and an M-1 is no Yugo in the size department. It all ain't just riding into battle and firing the main gun. There are a lot of other non-glory tasks that lead up to that point. Now, I was not a tanker but I was assigned to an ACR so I do know a bit about what they do from observing and discussing things with the Tankers. Universally, the most cussed thing I remember is the pain in the ass of fixing fubar tracks in a shitty environment. Lots of heavy tools, bogeys and links that required a lot of strength to work.

I cannot imagine an all-female tank crew doing the job and a mixed crew would be patently unfair to the male members.

I have met women who were fine servicemembers but they had their limitations that motivation simply could not overcome. As long as their job was within those limitations, they did about the same as the males. Physics is a bitch and ultimately, reality will win any argument you have with it. Better to be allies with it than beat your head against a wall. A lot of men are not cut out for Combat Arms assignments for that matter. Not everybody is born large enough to be an effective pack mule.

[variablebinary]

What happens when the female gets captured everybody that we fight has no Idea what the Geneva convention is or even how to spell it . Is the American population ready to she a female dragged necked through the streets beheaded on TV? Or the other nasty shit that would happen?

Therein lies the biggest problem.

America is not ready. More importantly, male soldiers aren't ready.

1 female soldier screaming for dear life will motivate men to do very strange "chivalry" like things.

Biology, nature, sexual roles and culture will make it damn near impossible for men and women to fight together. More so than female capability.

[Belmont31R]

I think the female hygiene issue is overstated.

Change underwear, give yourself a baby wipe bath, bury tampons and pads if needed, and drive on.

In my unit we are broken into two parts; strategic and tactical. Woman are not currently allowed to deploy in tactical roles, only strategic. However, we have had FTX with females, and they tend to have their own tricks of the trade when it comes to hygiene.

The implementation and execution are what will determine success or failure for combat arms females. It may not make sense for females to be 11B or 18C, but what about 19K, 14T or 14J

Ive been on plenty of FTX's with women, too.


Thats not the same as actually being in the field for months during combat conditions.


There is no way a female could stay clean for a few months without bathing.


With the ones who are physically capable of doing the job they still have to keep clean for months if needed, not end up pregnant, not let PMS affect their judgment, somehow males need to treat them the same (documented males will take risks to save females), ect. All in all its a stupid move because the vast majority of the time its going to cause problems that don't currently exist. I don't think the small percentage of women who could do without causing any extra issues is worth allowing the majority who will have issues.


I was in a mixed gender unit so Im fully aware of what problems female bring to the table. In my unit around 3/4ths of the females ended up pregnant from the day we got deployment orders to the day we came back. Its just not worth having females in MOS's like combat arms our mine (signal) where they can't lift equipment bags, ect. In my entire time in I knew of maybe 2-3 chicks who could pass a PT test to an 18-21 year old male minimum standard. We did have a couple chicks who kicked ass and didn't play the typical female but they are rare, and even then they are not as physically capable as the average male.


I also was attached to combat arms units during large exercises and while deployed. Our signal company had six man teams that were then attached to the combat arms units. Based on my experience I do not think there is any way allowing females in combat arms is going to work out. Its going to lessen the effectiveness of these units, cause disruptions, and there are VERY FEW females who can do without causing an issue. Even then they are going to be on the bottom end of the totem pole when it comes to being of benefit to their units.


Prior to moving into Iraq on my 2nd deployment by brigade was held in Kuwait for a few moths so we were out at the ranges, MPRI classes weekly, and out doing mass field exercises constantly. We'd move around the desert for 2-3 weeks at a time. Just based on that all our "out teams" (six men) none of them had males. All the females were kept around the company area. We were shitting in cat holes out in the open in front of other people, ect. I also took part in our scout unit's Spur Ride which was 50 miles in 50hrs. I was attached to the scouts for a bit, and we were PT'ing for 1.5hrs everyday, and an 6-8 mile run was normal at a pace that would be faster than maxing the female PT test.


While in Kuwait the MP's unit was like half females, and it was well known they were all whores and ****ing like crazy. All in all Ive come to the conclusion females in the military cause more problems than having an all male force. The only thing they should be doing is the 'medical corps' like we had in WW2, and they were kept pretty much separate from the line units unless someone ended up in the hospital. They can also be kept stateside or OCONUS fixed bases doing paperwork or supply.