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Thread: Why don't more manufacturers offer 1:7 rifling twist?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by shark31 View Post
    Out of an AR?
    I'd imagine so. I use the same bullets in my competition AR.

  2. #12
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    The vast majority of rounds fired out of AR's by civilians will be 55gr ammo.
    1:9" twist is perfectly suited for this.

    1:9" twist will reliably shoot bullets up to 69gr with some 1:9's also working for 75gr bullets.
    This is partly a matter of twist rate tolerances and also of barrel length.
    A 24" 1:9" barrel is MUCH more likely to stabilize 75's than a 16" 1:9 barrel.

    Twist rate tolerance is not something you hear about very often.

    Believe it or not, the twist rate tolerance on most "production grade" barrels is +/- 1/2".
    This is important.
    You can have a 1:9" twist barrel that's actually a 1:8.5" barrel, or a 1:9.5" barrel and it would be "in spec".
    That's why SOME 1:9's will stabilize 75gr bullets...

    Now, the 1:8" twist should get you through the 77's and maybe the 80's
    Optimum twist rate for the 80's is 1:7.7 and that's why Krieger offers that specific twist.

    1:7" twist is only needed for the long tracers.
    How many civilians on this board make a habit of shooting M856 tracers that would actually REQUIRE the 1:7" twist?
    I'll bet the number is small.
    If you kept yourself to 69gr matchkings and 62gr M855 ball, the 1:9" twist would cover you nicely.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  3. #13
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    Points well taken Randall, but some people have to make use of or want the ability to use 75-77gr projectiles, given their superior performance on malevolant squishy reactive targets.
    NOT in training for combat deployment.

  4. #14
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    Would a 1x8 twist barrel, say in stainless steel, wear more slowly than the same barrel in 1x7?

    Thanks!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy196 View Post
    Points well taken Randall, but some people have to make use of or want the ability to use 75-77gr projectiles, given their superior performance on malevolant squishy reactive targets.
    This is ONE of the problems inherent with purchasing Bushmasters for duty use. Weight and the twist ratio makes the Colt 6721 a poor choice also. Anyone want to guess which rifles I bought ?

    It becomes even more of an issue when you want to go the SBR/suppressed route and have some chance at decent terminal performance and shoot the 75 gr. TAP stuff.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by khc3 View Post
    Would a 1x8 twist barrel, say in stainless steel, wear more slowly than the same barrel in 1x7?

    Thanks!
    Barrels "wear out" due to flame cutting and cracking of the throat area. The throat, by its definition, is devoid of rifling so the rifling rate is irrelevant to a barrel's longevity.

    Quote Originally Posted by AR15barrels View Post
    Now, the 1:8" twist should get you through the 77's and maybe the 80's
    Not maybe the 80s. Definitely the 80s. Too many target shooters happily shooting 80s out of 1x8 to be a "maybe" or a coincidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by shark31 View Post
    Out of an AR?
    Yes, out of a Rock River National Match AR15.
    Last edited by KevinB; 08-30-07 at 17:12.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy196 View Post
    Points well taken Randall, but some people have to make use of or want the ability to use 75-77gr projectiles, given their superior performance on malevolant squishy reactive targets.
    1:8" twist would be the best choice for 75-77gr bullets.
    Unfortunately, most chrome lined chromoly barrels come in either 1:9 or 1:7 and 1:7 becomes the obvious choice given the two twists to choose from and ignoring the stainless steel 1:8 options.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Not maybe the 80s. Definitely the 80s. Too many target shooters happily shooting 80s out of 1x8 to be a "maybe" or a coincidence.
    Barrel length is an issue here.
    In 20" barrels, no problem.
    In 10.5" barrels, the 80's are right on the edge.
    The 77's should be fine in 10.5" 1:8's though.
    Last edited by KevinB; 08-30-07 at 17:13.
    Randall Rausch
    AR15 Barrel Guru
    California Precision Rifle Club founding member

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mamma View Post
    Like the title says, why don't more manufacturers offer 1:7 rifling twist with their AR clones? Maybe that's a stupid question but, I can't figure out why.

    Joe Mamma
    It's because that what the military uses. The military used the 1x7 in the M249 because its stabilized the very long M856 tracer projectile very well (the M856 projectile is a tiny bit longer than a 80gr Sierra BTHP, it's a bullet length issue to stabilze the M856 not so much the weight, I forget what a M856 projectile weighs but if I recall it's lighter than 80gr).

    When they started developing of the M16A2 they needed something to stabilize the SS109 projectile and they just used the 1x7 since they knew it already worked so well with the M856 (so as to not reinvent the wheel) and then the rest of the series used it as well........M16A3 & A4. The M4 and M4A1 also use the 1x7 (same reason, it worked why change it?).

    The 1x8 will stabilize a 77gr round out of a 18", 20" and 24" barrels. (I've not shot 1x8 with barrels shorter than 18")
    1x8 is pretty desirable by many (me included) and it seems more and more barrel makers are starting to offer it.

    The 1x9 will stabilize a 77gr out of 24" barrel simply because it has a lot of velocity. A 10.5" 1x9 won't stabilize it because of the lack of velocity.

    1x9 will stabilize what 'most' people shoot. Most people are going to shoot 50-69gr rounds simply because it's much cheaper than 73-77gr. Those that want the option of shooting 77gr should buy 1x7 or 1x8.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AR15barrels View Post
    Barrel length is an issue here.
    In 20" barrels, no problem.
    In 10.5" barrels, the 80's are right on the edge.
    The 77's should be fine in 10.5" 1:8's though.
    True. I was referring to 20" barrels and longer.

    rotation rate = linear velocity X rifling rate

  10. #20
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    the reason the 1/7 is not as popular is a subject that will have many answers and the debate would be endless. what I can tell you is the 1/7 in a 14.5 and 16 inch barrel with 75 and 77 grain ammo is all the reason I need ,because it works superbly. anyone who has shot 77 grain SMK out of a 1/7 knows just what the results are and needs no further explination,it flat out works.

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