No more Saiga shotguns?

[rubberneck]

Here's the annoying thing, 922r serves no legitimate purpose whatsoever. Substituting US compliant parts for Russian parts makes the gun no more safe or suitable for ownership. I have a big problem with laws that serve no legitimate purpose and are meant to harry and harass lawful citizens just for the sake of it.

IMHO this is just another example of how this current administration is pushing their agenda through the use of administrative law because they know they can't get what they want through Congress. If the Saiga shotgun has no legitimate sporting purpose because owners are modifying them after the fact what is keeping them from going after the Saiga rifles next?

[rubberneck]

I wonder how much IDPA is to blame for this? They were so upset about Saiga owners "sandbagging" against tube-fed shotguns that they kicked 'em out. They could have created a separate box mag class, but that wouldn't have pleased their tube-feeding sponsor so box mag shotguns were simply banned.

Now this being a free country, it shouldn't matter what kind of rules a private sporting organization makes. Unfortunately this sets an evil precedent. When a big sporting organization (such as IDPA) says that mag-fed shotguns don't belong in their sport, it's essentially begging the ATF to clamp down like this.

SO THANKS FOR NOTHING, IDPA!

Sorry but this post is just plain stupid. IDPA has nothing to do with this and it is beyond bizarre that you would blame them for it. If for some reason compensators become verboten is that IDPA's fault as well? What's next you are going to blame the lack of open carry laws on IDPA because the require contestants to conceal their firearms while shooting a stage. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

[kal]

Go to any gun show or gun store in the country and you're likely to find unconverted Saiga-12's with a big old 10 round magazine stuck in them

I thought it was alright to have no more than a 10 rounder in a imported shotgun? Or is the law different for shotguns?

[TOrrock]

Here's the annoying thing, 922r serves no legitimate purpose whatsoever. Substituting US compliant parts for Russian parts makes the gun no more safe or suitable for ownership. I have a big problem with laws that serve no legitimate purpose and are meant to harry and harass lawful citizens just for the sake of it.

IMHO this is just another example of how this current administration is pushing their agenda through the use of administrative law because they know they can't get what they want through Congress. If the Saiga shotgun has no legitimate sporting purpose because owners are modifying them after the fact what is keeping them from going after the Saiga rifles next?

While I'm in no way a fan of the current administration, we have to remember that it was under the Bush Jr. administration that BATF banned the importation of both barrels and receivers that are on the non sporting import ban that Bush Sr. directed BATF to add to the 1968 GCA in 1989.

[rubberneck]

While I'm in no way a fan of the current administration, we have to remember that it was under the Bush Jr. administration that BATF banned the importation of both barrels and receivers that are on the non sporting import ban that Bush Sr. directed BATF to add to the 1968 GCA in 1989.

It's one thing to ban certain parts of the firearm but IMHO it is an entirely different animal when you start banning the importation of entire firearms. They have just opened pandora's box. Now that they have decided that Saiga shotgun doesn't have a "legitimate sporting purpose" who and what is next?

[kartoffel]

I thought it was alright to have no more than a 10 rounder in a imported shotgun? Or is the law different for shotguns?

They way I'm reading the law, it would depend on whether the magazine renders the shotgun "non-sporting".

So, if you could run the 10 rounder in a sporting event (such as IDPA 3-gun, rubberneck), it would help bolster the argument that the gun is in a sporting configuration. Gilbert v Higgins also recognized hunting and skeet shooting as sporting purposes, so as long as your jurisdiction permits 10 rounds for squirrel, rabbit, etc, you've got yet another example of a sporting use.

[TOrrock]

It's one thing to ban certain parts of the firearm but IMHO it is an entirely different animal when you start banning the importation of entire firearms. They have just opened pandora's box. Now that they have decided that Saiga shotgun doesn't have a "legitimate sporting purpose" who and what is next?

What I'm trying to say is that they already have.

The 1989 Import Ban was an executive order that directed BATF to expand the 1968 GCA to include all the stuff that is now banned. When BATF banned the importation of barrels and receivers, they also stopped the importation of rifles that accepted standard magazines. So, you could no longer import a Romanian SAR-1, but you could import the WASR-10 and then open the magazine well up once it's in the US and add US parts.

Not agreeing with BATF doing this, just pointing out that it shouldn't be a surprise, there's plenty of precedent.

[kal]

So, you could no longer import a Romanian SAR-1, but you could import the WASR-10 and then open the magazine well up once it's in the US and add US parts.

I have a solution!!!!!

have the Russians export the shotguns with the magazine well closed and without a certain number of foreign parts for a lower price. Then add the US made parts here and open the mag well.

922r compliant. Problem solved.

[kartoffel]

I have a solution!!!!!

have the Russians export the shotguns with the magazine well closed and without a certain number of foreign parts for a lower price. Then add the US made parts here and open the mag well.

922r compliant. Problem solved.

That might just work. Even if they block the importation of complete firearms (i.e. receivers), Izhmash might just agree to ship parts kits. It would be simple enough for US-based AK builders to bend up some Saiga receivers.

[500grains]

There is an easier way. Saiga can open up the mag well at the factory, and then tack weld a 5 round sheet metal mag in place. They can even import US triggers, etc. to make the gun otherwise 922(r) compliant.

When the gun gets here, a dude buys it at a gun store, goes home, gets out the dremel or grinder, takes off the spot welds and stuffs his evil 20 round drum in it.

I have a solution!!!!!

have the Russians export the shotguns with the magazine well closed and without a certain number of foreign parts for a lower price. Then add the US made parts here and open the mag well.

922r compliant. Problem solved.