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Thread: No more Saiga shotguns?

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I wonder in light of recent SCOTUS decisions if there is a way to challenge the sporting purposes bullshit, since the 2nd Amendment wasn't designed to protect hunters or target shooters?



    The thing is the Constitution ends are the borders. The government has the constitutional authority to regulate trade. Just because its a firearm which is protected doesn't mean its protected in the sense of international trade.


    I can see the argument either way. I think that clause can be defeated because they are not restricting all or allowing everything. The government would likely have to show a compelling reason why non-classified sporting guns are 'discriminated' against. I can import a 600NE double gun but not a 12GA gun because it has a rail on the side of the handguard? I doubt they could use a "public safety" argument since you can buy USA made guns as exact copies of guns that are not allowed to be imported.


    It would be an interesting decision to read....

  2. #82
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    Comments may be submitted by e-mail to shotgunstudy@atf.gov or by fax to (202)648-9601.
    Faxed comments may not exceed 5 pages.
    All comments must include name and mailing address.
    ATF encourages submission of comments no later than May 1, 2011.




    If any of you want to take the time to explain to the ATF why practical competitions should be considered sporting here you go. I don't know enough about those competitions to make a good argument.

  3. #83
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    The body of the ATF memo is sufficiently vague to give them latitude in what they may choose to ban for importation, which is why many will have trouble understanding their message.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberneck View Post
    Sorry but this post is just plain stupid. IDPA has nothing to do with this and it is beyond bizarre that you would blame them for it. If for some reason compensators become verboten is that IDPA's fault as well? What's next you are going to blame the lack of open carry laws on IDPA because the require contestants to conceal their firearms while shooting a stage. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
    That post has plenty of relevance.

    Suppose the NRA, or Remington, Winchester, or whomever stood behind Jim Zumbo's comment that Black Rifles do not belong in the sporting field?

    Would that have given our gov't more room to enforce anti- black rifle laws? Damn straight it would.

    You either support the second amendment, or you don't. If you want to pick and choose which guns you do or don't support, then to me you are only a self supporting bigot. You should be in Washington with the others out to only look out for themselves.
    Last edited by battlestick; 01-28-11 at 11:22.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    The Saiga, as imported, still doesn't have any of the features listed as being non-sporting.
    "The Attorney General and ATF are not limited to these factors and therefore may consider any other factor determined to be relevant in making this determination."

    "However, even if a shotgun does not have one of the features listed above, it may be considered “sporting” only if it meets the statutory requirements under section 925(d)(3)."

    "The fact that a firearm or feature was initially designed for military or tactical applications, including offensive or defensive combat, may indicate that it is not a sporting firearm."
    The Siaga is a modified AK...That can take available high capacity mags or drums.


    The 922r implications are significant for anyone who wants to use an imported shotgun.

  6. #86
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    Originally Posted by rubberneck
    Sorry but this post is just plain stupid. IDPA has nothing to do with this and it is beyond bizarre that you would blame them for it. If for some reason compensators become verboten is that IDPA's fault as well? What's next you are going to blame the lack of open carry laws on IDPA because the require contestants to conceal their firearms while shooting a stage. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

    Horseshit.

    You don't think a bunch of people running around with non compliant Saiga and Benelli shotguns had anything to do with this? You are fooling yourself. They are one of the main reasons why we now have this ruling.

    Even after the five round magazine ban on shotguns in 2005, american companies still made extened magazine tubes for these shotguns and idoits would still put these on their Benelli shotguns and be in violation of the law.

    IDPA and all the 3 gun organizations let people into their competitions with illegal firearms and took no action to correct this matter which has brought down a bunch of shit upon us now.

    This new ruling is Obamas way for getting all this "under control" since the left doesn't have a way to pass a new gun control law through congress.

    Wake the **** up dude.

    The next thing they will declare non sporting is your accessory rail and Surefire X300 on your Glock and a threaded barrel on your HK USP, since both of those firearms are imported.
    Last edited by scottryan; 01-28-11 at 13:53.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottryan View Post
    Horseshit.

    You don't think a bunch of people running around with non compliant Saiga and Benelli shotguns had anything to do with this? You are fooling yourself. They are one of the main reasons why we now have this ruling.

    Even after the five round magazine ban on shotguns in 2005, american companies still made extened magazine tubes for these shotguns and idoits would still put these on their Benelli shotguns and be in violation of the law.

    IDPA and all the 3 gun organizations let people into their competitions with illegal firearms and took no action to correct this matter which has brought down a bunch of shit upon us now.

    This new ruling is Obamas way for getting all this "under control" since the left doesn't have a way to pass a new gun control law through congress.

    Wake the **** up dude.

    The next thing they will declare non sporting is your accessory rail and Surefire X300 on your Glock and a threaded barrel on your HK USP, since both of those firearms are imported.
    Can you elaborate on what illegal guns IDPA allows in competition? I help run some of the biggest IDPA matches in the country and I don't remember seeing any illegal guns or BATFE agents checking for them.

    As for the "sporting purpose" clause, it needs to be burned at the stake right along with Congress' power to regulate interstate commerce.
    Last edited by glocktogo; 01-28-11 at 15:00.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Can you elaborate on what illegal guns IDPA allows in competition?
    922r makes it illegal to put features on an imported shotgun that would make it un-importable as sporting. In 2005 the ATF determined that shotguns with a mag capacity greater than 5 rounds were not importable as sporting.
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=60531

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocktogo View Post
    Can you elaborate on what illegal guns IDPA allows in competition? I help run some of the biggest IDPA matches in the country and I don't remember seeing any illegal guns or BATFE agents checking for them.

    Your making my point for me. People were clueless as to what they were doing or what they were looking at.

    All one has to do is simply turn on the outdoor channel and see plenty of people with illegal firearms in competitive shooting.


    As for the "sporting purpose" clause, it needs to be burned at the stake right along with Congress' power to regulate interstate commerce.

    Not going to happen.
    Last edited by scottryan; 01-28-11 at 17:15.
    "Not every thing on Earth requires an aftermarket upgrade." demigod/markm

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    You need to read between the lines.

    "...Depth refers to the distance from the top plane of the
    shotgun to the bottom plane of the shotgun...Neither measurement
    includes the shoulder stock on traditional sporting shotgun designs."

    Also note you can no longer put a light, vert grip/AFG or railed handguard on an imported shotgun.

    ...unless you get the parts count under 10, then you can put whatever you want.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

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