Honest truth about ss barrels?

[Molon]

I've personally shot MOA at 300 meters with an M16A2 and M855 ammunition . . .


An issue M4 with M855 . . . I've seen them hold MOA out to 300 meters.

Even when fired from bolt-actioned, machine-rested test barrels at the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant, M855 isn’t capable of producing anything near MOA accuracy; so it certainly isn’t capable of producing MOA accuracy from chrome-lined, government profiled barrels fired on semi-automatic from an M16A2 or M4.

I'll be the first one to agree that M855 is not capable of dependably repeatable MOA accuracy. The non concentric nature of the steel penetrator makes it impossible to rely on lot to lot accuracy the way I do with match grade ammunition. The fact is I have done this twice. Once at the NYARNG TAG match in 2007, and again at the MAC 1 match in 2008. The accuracy I obtained I also saw out of other rifles at these same matches, which leads me to believe that the particular lot of ammo we were using was especially concentric.

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[long-shot]

I'm a little curious how many people have experienced MOA accuracy in their rifles with 10K rounds through the tube. I have one rifle with that many rounds on it and it's a bolt action custom .308. Even that rifle is starting to give up accuracy so I question anyone who claims to still have MOA accuracy out of a semi with the same volume of rounds. I've personally burned out 3 AR barrels when they couldn't hold 3 MOA and these had roughly 3-4K rounds on them in .223.

I'd like to here from the actual people who have shot this much and not "a guy". I say this because I shoot with a bunch of people and most don't believe me when I tell them how many rounds are through even my bolt gun when it shoots as well as it does.

[Sgt_Gold]

Ok, a little off topic but my accuracy claims with issue weapons and M855 was called into question. Here's my last zeroing target with a brand new M4 and iron sights. The target is actually two groups, you can see my pen mark on the left of the lower group. The first group is about 1\2", the second group is about 3\8". Those are the raw group measurements without subtracting the projectile diameter.

[Sgt_Gold]

I'm with you on this one. Until I see some evidence of the 10k accuracy claim I'm gonna call it fan boy BS. The fact that it comes from the manufacturer makes it even more suspect.

I'm a little curious how many people have experienced MOA accuracy in their rifles with 10K rounds through the tube. I have one rifle with that many rounds on it and it's a bolt action custom .308. Even that rifle is starting to give up accuracy so I question anyone who claims to still have MOA accuracy out of a semi with the same volume of rounds. I've personally burned out 3 AR barrels when they couldn't hold 3 MOA and these had roughly 3-4K rounds on them in .223.

I'd like to here from the actual people who have shot this much and not "a guy". I say this because I shoot with a bunch of people and most don't believe me when I tell them how many rounds are through even my bolt gun when it shoots as well as it does.

[bp7178]

I've personally burned out 3 AR barrels when they couldn't hold 3 MOA and these had roughly 3-4K rounds on them in .223.

What did those barrels start off shooting?

[5pins]

Ok, a little off topic but my accuracy claims with issue weapons and M855 was called into question. Here's my last zeroing target with a brand new M4 and iron sights. The target is actually two groups, you can see my pen mark on the left of the lower group. The first group is about 1\2", the second group is about 3\8". Those are the raw group measurements without subtracting the projectile diameter.

Was that at 25 meters?

[long-shot]

What did those barrels start off shooting?

Roughly .7-1 MOA consistently in SPR'ish type guns.

[Molon]

Ok, a little off topic but my accuracy claims with issue weapons and M855 was called into question. Here's my last zeroing target with a brand new M4 and iron sights. The target is actually two groups, you can see my pen mark on the left of the lower group. The first group is about 1\2", the second group is about 3\8". Those are the raw group measurements without subtracting the projectile diameter.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9858/004dbq.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1349/001eo.jpg

3-shot groups.



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[bkb0000]

3-shot groups.



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very few people use the 10-shot standard.. and for most guys at the range, 3-shots IS the standard. the more hard-core purists will go up to 5. you're the only person i've ever seen using a 10... but that's just my limited perception.

and i'm just being devil's advocate here, but what if i suggested that your 10-shot standard wasn't sufficient, and said only a 20-shot group was a reliable judge of barrel accuracy potential? the point being, you can set whatever standard you want... 10 might be a great compromise, but it's still just an arbitrarily chosen number.

[Cameron]

Actually the international standard for group size measurement in 137 round groups.

You have to fire 16 groups of 137 rounds each and then average all the mean radius/extreme spread/group sizes and multiply by pi and divide by the barrel length less the atmospheric factor multiplier used as an aggregate adjuster.

Only then can you be sure that your carbine will even get close to hitting the broad side of a barn from the inside.

Cameron