"Gun Rags"

[SteyrAUG]

Thanks for all of the replies guys.


Are you willing to pay for online content? Do you find an online site that exists thanks to advertising dollars any different than a print magazine that does the same? I'm not talking about forums like this one that obviously get paid sponsorships from advertisers/vendors but review sites that have one reviewer, or a limited group of reviewers.

Never.

First of all I don't want any more time parked at the computer than I have to. I don't want to read articles or books. I don't watch movies on my computer.

When it comes to learning about small arms I'm pretty set with a reference library far more comprehensive and error free than anything found on the net or in a gun rag.

If I have a question, I can go to a forum such as this one and get an answer or look it up elsewhere. Also on a forum such as this one you can get answers from several knowledgeable people rather than a single persons bias.

[SteyrAUG]

I think these two portions of your post are where the crux of the matter lies to some degree.

Many people in this thread have commented that the biggest thing they want to see out of the gun is more use. The issue here is, in part, the cost of that testing. Speaking strictly from my own experience, I prefer to run T&E guns in structured courses because it's something other than standing at the bench dumping rounds downrange, and for whatever reason actual use causes malfunctions that you'd never see at the bench. So my out of pocket cost is pretty high between tuition for the course, travel expenses, and ammo to conduct the test. Figure $600 + $200 + (as much as) $500 and you're at $1,300 in out of pocket costs. And that's not even testing to failure, that's just testing in a more dynamic environment. Then some people want the guns bought off the shelf and not supplied by the manufacturer, and you can easily wind up with a per-article total cost of over $3,000. That is ~6x what some have (pretty accurately) theorized that the author is making on the article.

There may be a business model by which the kind of testing that the posters here would like to see can sustain itself. I think Pat Rogers is onto a genius way of doing it by having his students effectively pay him to T&E the guns and pay for their own ammo in the process.

I think it is a good idea that nobody will be willing to pay for. And that is why nobody else is already doing it. People had the same idea 30 years ago when I was shooting. Nobody could get funding for it then either.

Somebody has the pay the costs, and if you do completely honest reviews it won't be manufacturers and advertisers.The writers and staff aren't gonna pay out of pocket. And the consumer sure isn't gonna pay for it. The average gun buyer is simply too content to form his opinion based upon a Youtube video of Gun A vs. Gun B in a 100 round rapid fire "torture test."

The rest of us look at things like military tests and evaluations and similar source material for performance.

[kartoffel]

I have a smart phone and a laptop. If I want to read about guns while sitting in the doctors office or while sitting on toilet, I'll read the internet.

Gun rags are just pretty pictures, hot air and sunshine. Why should I pay to get advertised at?

[ucrt]

....Then some people want the guns bought off the shelf and not supplied by the manufacturer, and you can easily wind up with a per-article total cost of over $3,000. ...

==================================

Rob,
Like you say, good "testing" is expensive, so it will have to be some well-financed business to figure out a way to make a profit with that information. It just makes sense that it would be some type of internet magazine. Plus there are a lot of things to be tested that are a lot cheaper than guns.

The ideal internet magazine would be one that did have advertising (to help reduce subscription costs and finance testing) but would still have honest hardcore reporting of the testing even at the dismay of who advertises in their magazine.

Probably unrealistic but... since an internet mag would not have the same publishing costs as a paper mag, it would be nice to see one come about that had a $10 annual subscription costs but had good articles, serious testing, reference material, catalogs, etc.

I'm sure companies like Troy, Larue, Aimpoint, DD, BCM, SureFire, ADM, Triji, Noveske, etc. could handle the honest criticism of a review, so they would remain loyal advertisers. I'd think companies like BM, Mako, SIG, Burris, Bushnell, CAA, etc. would stay away (or not hang around too long) but that is where the subscription price would come into play to make up the difference for a reasonable profit.

Part of the problem is a paper magazine business model is applied to the design of an internet magazine, which kills the value to the consumer but is used because it maximizes profits to the magazine owners. I've seen offers where a magazine wanted as much money for an internet subscription as a paper one??

I think the only way this type of magazine could come about would be from an existing Forum. There are a few Forums with integrity still around, so you would think it would be a natural profitable expansion?? Imagination and money (duh) are probably the biggest limiting factors.

Again, just thinking out loud...

.

[Hootiewho]

I can't stand a certain writer and you'll know who I am referring to. I swear, it's like his articles are a pre-written format where he just enters in POF or M1A and changes "brass flies as rounds go down range" or "Florence AL SWAT member puts blah-blah through its paces..." Every single one starts out telling how the M4 sucks in the "sandbox" In a recent review of his in SWAT magazine of the 50 beuwolf it shows him in a picture firing the 50, but a very clear, detailed 5.56mm case is coming out of the ejection port, like it was photochopped in to make it look like "The Author" was shooting. What a joke, not to mention how many different times can you put the same info about the DBAL and PVS-22 in a magazine? Pat Rogers is the SOLE reason I read SWAT, and I have noticed a marked decrease in article quality in SWATs other writers here lately. (Not you Rob).

I asked Denny about putting my SCAR vs AR write up in the magazine back in September. Not to toot my own horn, but it is one of the more straight up data based reviews of any gun I've seen in a while. I worked hard to make it that way. His reply was he was overloaded with SCAR articles already. OK, whatever.

I completely understand where you are going Rob; as for me doing that SCAR review I bought the rifle at normal cost, bought the ammo, the range membership... The test equipment I used runs in the 10's of thousands of dollars. Would I do it again? You bet because it was fun. Would it be nice to re-coup some of that cost? Hell Yea it would, but by me having no ties to any mfg; it really is a un-biased write up. I started out curious about the SCAR, now I'm sold.

Unless you find a niche like what John has done with silencertest, it's going to be hard to make much return on the info/reviews. Even if you do charge guys for the info, all it takes is 1 person posting that info in a forum and then why would any pay to read it then? I hope you find a way to make it work for you, as I appreciate what you have done for us in the past, but without a niche, it'll be difficult. I will say this, whatever you do, I will gladly contribute.

Best of Luck

[BWT]

Thanks for all of the replies guys.

To some extent I knew going into this that I was asking questions of an obviously biased audience. If I had a way of polling those that dislike the forums and the drama that comes with them I might get a different response. Also somewhat interesting that a recent article about a local vendor got him contacts and business from a whole new market segment as all of his marketing had previously been online.

Let me shift things a bit, given the audience.

Are you willing to pay for online content? Do you find an online site that exists thanks to advertising dollars any different than a print magazine that does the same? I'm not talking about forums like this one that obviously get paid sponsorships from advertisers/vendors but review sites that have one reviewer, or a limited group of reviewers.

I have and I will continue to do so.

NFATalk.org

nutnfancy (I've got... three items I can think off of the top of my head by following some of his buying guidance).

Those are places I've given money, that I didn't get any kind of elevated status (and honestly, don't want one, I don't want a bigger PM box, I don't want to be able to gripe to site staff and someone get banned or have any kind of "pull" I just realize, either, they've got $10k in sound metering equipment, and thousands of dollars in MG's, suppressors, web expenses, travel expenses, ammunition, money lost from taking time off work) I value their opinions, and I feel they're honest.

Educated and honest, that's the two things I'd like out of a review. (Educated on the material they're reviewing/opining)

Honestly, over the years, you've answered enough of my questions via P.M., I'd give you money, flat out. No Strings attached.

ETA: I edited to add some stuff in the parenthesis above

[RogerinTPA]

I used to subscribe to several handgun mags in the past and read SOF in the 70's when I was a youngin. Now days, I find myself reading more factual blogs, articles, when I want to find real deal information like Kyle Defoor's blog, Paul Howe's news letters, and books by other professional trainers (SMG Kyle Lamb).

[JStor]

"Precision Shooting" is a good magazine. The content has become much more generalized over the years. By generalized I mean there's historical pieces, technical articles, new product reviews, and it just covers a broad range of interests. It is subscription only, and holds a fairly unique spot in the realm of magazines.

Readers should understand that magazines can not survive without advertising dollars, thus the "treading softly" around the advertiser's products. But you can write about something and ignore the competition. I generally don't write about things that fail to interest me.

I've done around forty free lance articles, mostly for Precision Shooting, Inc., and yeah, I think they're the best. Also, when I do a piece, I am presenting my opinions along with facts. I choose what I want to write about, and if I like a product better than another, I'll tell you why...that's where the opinion comes in.

But readers want to know what kind of groups a rifle gets off the bench and what hand load was used. It may not be the best load in their rifle, but they want to know. That is why so many shooters ask for the best load for a certain bullet.

Some think that testing a rifle off the bench has no value, but what you are doing is establishing the accuracy baseline for the rifle and load. Find the best one, then go do the dynamic blasting and field work.