View Poll Results: Best Overall M4 Suppressor

Voters
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  • KAC QDSS-NT4

    18 12.59%
  • Surefire FA556SA

    52 36.36%
  • AAC M4-2000

    73 51.05%
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Thread: M4 Suppressors

  1. #41
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    POI shift varies with ammo selction too when using a suppressor.

    When I bought my NT4 a little over 4 years ago, I had a lengthy discussion with Lt. Col. David Lutz at KAC about POI shift, cans etc etc. Mr. Lutz offered to test some NT4's on my LMT 10.5" upper for me (talk about customer service!). He fired 2 different kinds of ammo, Mk262 and M193, from 100 yards. The shift between suppressed/unsuppressed with the Mk262 was 5/8 of an inch, and with the M193 the shift opened up to 2 inches.

    When I recieved my upper back from KAC, Lt. Col. Lutz included the "M110" qual targets that he used during the test, detailing the rounds between suppressed/unsuppressed and poi shift. The targets are still in my safe. Needless to say, I was very happy with the results, the cs of KAC, and continue to be impressed with my "hand picked" NT4.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by S-1 View Post
    POI shift varies with ammo selction too when using a suppressor.

    When I bought my NT4 a little over 4 years ago, I had a lengthy discussion with Lt. Col. David Lutz at KAC about POI shift, cans etc etc. Mr. Lutz offered to test some NT4's on my LMT 10.5" upper for me (talk about customer service!). He fired 2 different kinds of ammo, Mk262 and M193, from 100 yards. The shift between suppressed/unsuppressed with the Mk262 was 5/8 of an inch, and with the M193 the shift opened up to 2 inches.

    When I recieved my upper back from KAC, Lt. Col. Lutz included the "M110" qual targets that he used during the test, detailing the rounds between suppressed/unsuppressed and poi shift. The targets are still in my safe. Needless to say, I was very happy with the results, the cs of KAC, and continue to be impressed with my "hand picked" NT4.
    Dave Lutz is a cool guy. I have known him for years...and I know he can really shoot.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin/aac View Post
    Dave Lutz is a cool guy. I have known him for years...and I know he can really shoot.
    He can shoot especially for a lefty! Gotta rib you Dave.
    I've known him since 1987 or 1988. He's the reason the M16A2 and newer have brass deflectors.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Right. DB rating with a gun shooting a bullet that breaks the sound barrier is pointless.

    All that really matters (to me) is POI of shift.

    Both of my AAC cans have a POI shift of about 3 inches at 100yds. Now that doesn't sound like a whole lot, but if I am shooting at someone at 200yds, now I am 6 inches off. This becomes a problem.


    C4

    I respectfully disagree with your statement regarding dB. It makes a HUGE difference with supersonic rounds. 135dB and 145dB are worlds apart.

    All guns and silencers have different POI-shift. There isn't a magic formula to eliminate it. Several companies (AAC, SF, etc.) are doing our best to minimize it and make certain it is consistent. Everything else is pure marketing.

    We have not lost a U.S. .mil contract that we have competed in since 2006. I don't believe we have been beat in accuracy or POI-shift in any of those competitions...including .338LM sniper rifles and the M24E (M2010) sniper rifle, where POI-shift is very important.

    FWIW...I like both KAC and SF silencers.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rider79 View Post
    I'm gonna ask a dumb question now. If I leave the can on the rifle all the time, POI shift doesn't mean anything, correct? I would sight it in with the can on, then it doesn't matter what it is without the can if I'm not going to shoot it without it. I've thought about the Gemtech Trek, but now I'm considering the G5 and the AAC M42K as well.
    I agree with this thought. I often try to push our .mil customers wanting silencers for sniper rifles to simply go with thread mount silencers. They often feels fast-attach is necessary for certain applications, and is it also currently trendy. Thread mounting is simple, few parts, and no moving parts. It is generally less expensive, lighter weight, and more compact. We find that 99% of customers do not shoot without the silencer once they receive it.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin/aac View Post
    I agree with this thought. I often try to push our .mil customers wanting silencers for sniper rifles to simply go with thread mount silencers. They often feels fast-attach is necessary for certain applications, and is it also currently trendy. Thread mounting is simple, few parts, and no moving parts. It is generally less expensive, lighter weight, and more compact. We find that 99% of customers do not shoot without the silencer once they receive it.
    Good to know that you guys recommend this Kevin. I got into a discussion about 3-4 weeks ago about liking a direct thread on Cyclone. Some self appointed expert said that this will cause barrel threading wear and I'll lose accuracy.........

    My Rem 700 rebuilt/blueprinted by PWS at Quantico and cut to 20" and threaded by John Noveske with a Cyclone (old style). Accuracy Int'l AICS 2.0 stock, Harris bipod, Nightforce 5.5-22x NXS in Badger rings and mount.


    Here's that thread I was talking about:
    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...hlight=cyclone
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin/aac View Post
    I respectfully disagree with your statement regarding dB. It makes a HUGE difference with supersonic rounds. 135dB and 145dB are worlds apart.

    All guns and silencers have different POI-shift. There isn't a magic formula to eliminate it. Several companies (AAC, SF, etc.) are doing our best to minimize it and make certain it is consistent. Everything else is pure marketing.

    We have not lost a U.S. .mil contract that we have competed in since 2006. I don't believe we have been beat in accuracy or POI-shift in any of those competitions...including .338LM sniper rifles and the M24E (M2010) sniper rifle, where POI-shift is very important.

    FWIW...I like both KAC and SF silencers.

    The current quality cans on the market are all pretty close in their DB ratings. So we are just splitting hairs at some point.

    If the customer doesn't put much importance on POI shift or deems 3-4MOA POI shift as "acceptable" then yes, AAC will most likely never lose a contract.


    C4

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The current quality cans on the market are all pretty close in their DB ratings. So we are just splitting hairs at some point.

    If the customer doesn't put much importance on POI shift or deems 3-4MOA POI shift as "acceptable" then yes, AAC will most likely never lose a contract.


    C4
    M2010 and .338LM required 1.5 and 2MOA.

    Thanks for the input.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The current quality cans on the market are all pretty close in their DB ratings. So we are just splitting hairs at some point.

    If the customer doesn't put much importance on POI shift or deems 3-4MOA POI shift as "acceptable" then yes, AAC will most likely never lose a contract.


    C4
    And the Titan-QD is 7-12dB better than most other .300WM and .338LM silencers.

  10. #50
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    Kevin, how does the Surefire .338 compare to your product in both steel and TI?

    Also, you should make a thread on variant of the 762SD-N-6. I have no need for QD in that application and suspect others would have the same thought.

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