What am I doing wrong?

[Heavyweight]

I am trying to get with the times and update my ergonomics. I know that current training methods have the shooter's weak arm extended down the length of the barrel gripping very near the gas block with the thumb lying across the axis of the barrel. I've read that this is supposed to give better control and faster target transitioning. I've worked very hard to make the switch but I hate it. Seems like I can't keep my sight picture from floating around. Am I the only one left with a traditional vfg located closer to the magwell.....who likes to tuck that arm in tight? What am I doing wrong?

Be safe!

Heavyweight

[Quinn]

I tend to overextend my arm, then I get a firm grip. This puts constant pressure on my shoulder but I find it helps me keep the rifle steady instead of holding it up with my tricep or forearm. I dont know if its correct but it works for me. I would say the bottom line is you just need to keep practicing.

[Low Drag]

Get the stock off your shoulder on onto the strong side pec, e.g. get it closer to your breast bone.

Try getting into a modern iso as you would with a handgun, leave your support hand where it would be for a handgun, then pull you shooting hand back to the pistol grip.

Hope I decribed that well.

[JSantoro]

What am I doing wrong?

You're fretting over what your form looks like vs. what your results are.

If you get your best results with your support hand where it's been, and lesser results futzing around with other hand positions, then stick with the original.

Hand-forward, one tends to need to pull back into the torso to tuck in behind the gun. If you're not used to that, you can end up overexerting and then shaking because you're pulling with your bicep, which is a fairly small muscle. Some folks are more suited to that, and it works for them.

With the hand further back, your elbow will naturally be in a more downward aspect. Instead of pulling with the support arm, think of trying to bring your elbows together under the gun; we called it "wringing the towel." It uses the larger muscles of the back and can lead to reduced fatigue in certain body types.

That's a bunch of spitballing, but if you're noting reduced performance when trying something that doesn't feel right to you, it's not without basis.

The suggestion of moving the butt more to your centerline is a good one, if you want to continue trying your hand further forward. It changes the angles in a way that might work better for you in that regard.

[Heavyweight]

Jim,

That is excellent advice and I'm going to give it a try before I give up. I'm not so much worried about how I look but rather if I'm missing out on improvement opportunities. My philosophy is if you don't force yourself out of your comfort zone from time to time and try new things you can't improve. Thanks much to you and Low Drag for the tips!

Heavyweight

[Gecko_764]

Get the stock off your shoulder on onto the strong side pec, e.g. get it closer to your breast bone.

Try getting into a modern iso as you would with a handgun, leave your support hand where it would be for a handgun, then pull you shooting hand back to the pistol grip.

Hope I decribed that well.

I think you described it spot on. I just started shooting this way recently after a carbine class (all I had was how the military taught in basic training). Reading this, and then doing it like you described, put me exactly where I feel like I should be.

[jaxman7]

IF you think the arms extended will work best for you don't think that its going to happen overnight. Especially if it feels uncomfortable. I always get friends of mine to take pictures of me while shooting and I noticed something progress while I was changing from an elbows tucked to a more center of body position/support hand extended stance. Looking at local shoots and 3 gun match photos I first saw my hand go further out and the gun get more centered on my chest. With further progression I leaned in more and my support elbow got straight with a thumbs forward grip. The latest pics I have of me is everything previously mentioned plus the gun is slightly more centered and now my thumb is over the top of the rail. To make a long story short, it took months to change this to my natural shooting stance. It is, for myself, more stable when shifting from target to target. It is not stable if shooting static at a longer distance. If I have to shoot at a match at say 100+ yards (standing unsupported) I still tuck my elbows in and keep my body straight. This is the only time i do that now. That is just more stable for my skill level at those distances. Everything else though my shooting stance stays the same.

-Jax

[RogerinTPA]

In the standing position, you will always have a "wobble" with the sights since it is the least supported firing position. During my competition days, the support hand was back near the mag well, often balancing the weapon with the base of the mag itself, which provided the most stable position for the most precise shot, with the least amount of fatigue. Tactical shooting is a different animal, especially when doing drills where you are moving, performing room clearings, maneuvering around obstacles and shooting multiple targets. That's where the support hand in the most forward position is the most desired, to control and drive the gun. Precision still counts, but not on the magnitude of a precision rifle competitor, which is static shooting. Most will just use what is most comfortable for them. Some may adjust the stock in, a notch or two, to find that comfort level.

[morbidbattlecry]

I struggled with this alot too Heavy. I ended up not liking that style at all.
And thats all it really is. Just try to get good hits on target first. If you want to do something that is about a half way point between say that style and a more bladed stance. Look how Larry Vickers shoots.

If you find your arms shaking let your rifle down or set it down entirely and rest a second. When your good to go, pick it back up and repeat. Thats what i have done and all my groups tightened up like 50%. It was great

[RancidSumo]

I struggled with this alot too Heavy. I ended up not liking that style at all.
And thats all it really is. Just try to get good hits on target first. If you want to do something that is about a half way point between say that style and a more bladed stance. Look how Larry Vickers shoots.

If you find your arms shaking let your rifle down or set it down entirely and rest a second. When your good to go, pick it back up and repeat. Thats what i have done and all my groups tightened up like 50%. It was great

That works great if you are just punching paper but I think it is best to find a way that doesn't fatigue your arms and make you shake right off because you may not have the luxury of setting it down and resting when you need a fighting carbine which is what I think this stance is for.