The Defensive Shotgun; How we make it work--MilCopp Blog

[Fail-Safe]

I have personally and extensively field tested 000B, 00B, and #4B, including on vehicles, wallboard, plywood, and water jugs. I found that the heaviest buckshot pellets penetrate the deepest and spread the least. Consequently, 000B & 00B are what I loaded my shotguns with as a cop and when I lived in a remote mountain area with bears and mountain lions but no close neighbors.

However, now that I live in the burbs with close neighbors all around I have opted for #4 buck for my in-house gun because it penetrates the least and spreads the most.

Its funny, you answer inconsistencies in your story with more inconsistencies.

Heavier projectiles penetrate more because of momentum, and that that has been known for DECADES. Lighter pellets dont necessarily spread more out of shotguns, its dependent upon choke, shotgun, ammo, wad, etc. I have seen 4B loads make a beautifully tight pattern at 15 and 20 meters from a Mossberg 9200A1.

If your 4B load offers less penetration in sheetrock, it will offer less penetration in a human. Penetration is necessary to reach vital body structures and increase bleed out. Why in God's name would you use something with less penetration? Your testing is as ridiculous as your claims.

What size buck is "best" depends on the expected targets and the situation.

Not really, what works best depends on what does the most damage.

What department? I'll give you a hint: At that time it was the city PD with the highest crime rate for its size in the US. What difference does that make anyway? It's anchient history.

Every cop from Bum****, ID to Jersey City, NJ likes to make that claim. So why not just stop obfuscating and answer the question.

Have you been able to find a large number of cases where home invaders withstood more than two center mass blasts of 12ga buckshot without dropping, surrendering or fleeing? If so, please point me to them.

I didnt claim that. I claimed that there are many shooting in which there are more than two badguys, and that there are many shooting in which badguys stand and fight. I even provided a link to a website that tracks shooting, both inside a domicile and outside. I knew you wouldnt check the link because you're a coward.

IMO there is nothing wrong with using pumps, autoloaders, hi-cap rifles or pistols for home defense. I have used them all at one time or another and may do so again if my situation changes.

No you havent. For if you did you'd see the distinct advantage of them over a lowly double barrel shotgun and "pocket 9mm".

My truck gun, for example, is an SKS, not a shotgun. Is a 10 shot SKS "better" than a 30 shot AR? Nope. But if it gets stolen I'm only out $200. So there are reasons for using certain guns that don't necessarily have anything to do with what is "best". And besides that, what is "best" for one person may not be "best" for another. Which is one reason why there are so many different kinds of guns on the market.

You needed to paragraphs to pad your argument. The second one which should've been a part of the first paragraph, and your last one.

That said, if you have such faith in your idiotic choice of shotgun and ammo, why dont you carry that in your trunk. Where's the confidence? You just said you tested 00B and 000B on cars in the past.


Your posts have more holes in them than the wall of your house when you miss your target.

[Fail-Safe]

Here's a gem of a story here in Dallas, TX. This is the initial follow up, as I cant find the conclusion article but suffice to say Mr Stinson defended his life, wife, and home with a Polish AKMS underfolder against what turned out to be 6 armed and armored badguys. He got 5 of them. His GJ trial lasted an hour and resulted in a no-bill.

A robbery gone bad in northeast Dallas turned into a gun battle early Wednesday that ended with one man dead, another injured and another facing charges. Police said Wednesday afternoon they had not confirmed the identity of the man who died.

It started about 2 a.m. at a home on the 9000 block of Woodshore Drive, in a neighborhood near where Greenville Avenue intersects Royal Lane. Four or five intruders broke into the home and surprised its owner, 25-year-old Mark Stinson, while he was sleeping.

They forced him at gunpoint to open a safe containing several thousands of dollars, police say, and then they tried to flee in an SUV. But Mr. Stinson had a gun of his own and fired it as they tried to drive away.

It was unclear whether they fired back, Dallas police homicide Sgt. Larry Lewis said. “But we did pick up different caliber rounds out there so we know at least more than one gun was being shot.”

The sergeant said at least 30 rounds were fired in all.

Less then a mile away, the occupants of the SUV pulled over because tires were shot out. They called 911 as one of the occupants died of gunshot wounds. Another, a 17-year-old boy, was arrested at the scene. The others fled.

Another man, 18-year-old Davane Jones, soon showed up at a local hospital with gunshot wounds. Police arrested him and the 17-year-old on charges of aggravated robbery.

As for the homeowner, Mr. Stinson, police say they will leave any possible charges up to the district attorney’s office and a grand jury. “Even though by our investigation it appears he was justified under Texas law to defend his house and his property...we don’t make that decision,” Sgt. Lewis said.

What now?

[CDR_Glock]

Extremely well written and to the point. The Shotgun is arguably a solid weapon. There are many subtleties that one must be aware to make it an effective one.

I have heard many of those misconceptions and this article reinforces those arguments. Many people can end up dead if they believe false arguments.

Thank you, Sir, for the post.


Lifetime NRA Member

[StrikerFired]

Very, very nicely written artice. Thank you again for posting it and including the pictures.

[SIMBA-LEE]

"They forced him at gunpoint to open a safe containing several thousands of dollars, police say, and then they tried to flee in an SUV. But Mr. Stinson had a gun of his own and fired it as they tried to drive away."
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The homeowner/victim would have been prosecuted and gone to prison for this in most states. However, in TX it's legal to shoot fleeing felons under some circumstances.

Your other remarks are too trollish for me to bother with.

[Littlelebowski]

I'm hearing a lot of stuff that sounds like that MTPD guy on GlockTalk....

[DMR]

safe containing several thousands of dollars
---- surprised its owner, 25-year-old

Some odd things in this, from a non-LEO's perspective. At 25, 35, and now 45 I have yet to have had a safe in my home containing several hundred, let alone thousands, of dollars.

Obviously enilsting at 17 to be in the Infantry was not going to get me there, but I'd like to know what line of work this kid is in so I can start over again.

[Jake'sDad]

Some odd things in this, from a non-LEO's perspective. At 25, 35, and now 45 I have yet to have had a safe in my home containing several hundred, let alone thousands, of dollars.

Obviously enilsting at 17 to be in the Infantry was not going to get me there, but I'd like to know what line of work this kid is in so I can start over again.

There's still some guys that like to use cash. It's amazing how often you can get a discount when you pull out a few Benjamins to pay for stuff.

But your curiosity would be shared by the guys investigating this I'm sure. If Stinson looks hinkey for any other reasons, I'm thinking he'll be getting a lot of attention from IRS, etc. Most of these kind of capers turn out to be dealer ripoffs, but not all of them.

[Alaskapopo]

My safe contains thousands in guns and it did even when I was 25 years old. But I am single and I have credit card debt that I am working to pay off and I have no other hobbies.
Pat

[DMR]

My safe contains thousands in guns and it did even when I was 25 years old. But I am single and I have credit card debt that I am working to pay off and I have no other hobbies.
Pat

Tracking there, I mean that much CASH. Just odd, since growing up we bought our clothes at Good Will and the Salvation Army. Its just outside my frame of reference. A year ago I had I alot of material in the safe. Now I just have a few core items.

At 25 there wasn't enough left after drinking to stock pile cash.