The Defensive Shotgun; How we make it work--MilCopp Blog

[shua713]

excellant write up, I was considering buying one as a back up HD weapon. I have an AR and pistol for now, but I would like to get one and do some experimenting with it.

[Fail-Safe]

"They forced him at gunpoint to open a safe containing several thousands of dollars, police say, and then they tried to flee in an SUV. But Mr. Stinson had a gun of his own and fired it as they tried to drive away."
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The homeowner/victim would have been prosecuted and gone to prison for this in most states. However, in TX it's legal to shoot fleeing felons under some circumstances.

True. That said this was in Dallas, TX, a haven for liberals. At the time our DA was a Liberal and still is, the ADA he appointed to handle gun cases was a liberal, our police chief was a liberal, our Sheriff was a liberal lesbian and still is.

That said, you made no qualifications about where the shooting took place, and to be honest, I couldnt care less if you did. You asked for an example, I provided one in a very nice area of Dallas, which is 5 miles as the crow flies, east of my house.

Fail, you asked why I carry an SKS in my vehicle instead of a shotgun. It's because I have tested buckshot on vehicles and found it to be considerably less effective in penetrating vehicles than 30 Russian. And on the street you are much more likely to be attacked by felons in vehicles than inside your home.

Your other remarks are too trollish for me to bother with.

No old boy, I asked it in a rhetorical sense, I know why one would. Seeing as you believe, erroneously, that a double barrel is all you need, and that you are so confident in your current abilities, and those mega awesome previous shootings that you "experienced" you know how to change ammo and be proficient at it.

As for my comments being trollish, thats laughable. I know your past on other boards and have seen your posts. They'll be coming out here shortly.

[Fail-Safe]

Some odd things in this, from a non-LEO's perspective. At 25, 35, and now 45 I have yet to have had a safe in my home containing several hundred, let alone thousands, of dollars.

Obviously enilsting at 17 to be in the Infantry was not going to get me there, but I'd like to know what line of work this kid is in so I can start over again.

The shooting happened in a very nice area of Dallas. Like every else in Dallas, every neighborhood that is nice is bordered by "booty hoods" as a DPD detective friend calls them.

At 21 I was doing quite well without so much as a GED for education (Dallas Public Schools are a joke). That said, I believe it was later revealed that Mr Stinson was/is an attorney at the time, and the safe was also his gun safe, hence he was able to pull is Polish AKMS. One of the guys that did some renovation on his house told his thug life buddies about the safe.

[SIMBA-LEE]

It's amazing that down here on the Tex/Mex border there are tons a BIG MANSIONS, and according to a RE Broker friend, lots of Mex home buyers here pay with cash. Real cash, carried in paper bags. So, for whatever reason, lots of Mexicans and Mexican Americans here keep large amounts of cash on hand, which of course encourages home invasions.

[NCPatrolAR]

Don't mind me, just passing through

[Fail-Safe]

Fail, what I asked for was examples of homeowners that had to fire MORE THAN TWO SHOTGUN BLASTS OF BUCKSHOT into home invaders INSIDE THEIR HOMES. Not an example of AK rounds being fired at fleeing home invaders driving away in a vehicle.

It doesnt matter what weapon was used. The fact that it was an underfolder AK is superfluous. It wouldnt have mattered what the weapon was, shotgun, pistol, rifle, they still fought him even after he capped two guys, the rest of the group was still fighting him.

[NCPatrolAR]

The personal attacks should be over at this point. If I see any more I'll be handing out infractions.... this is everyone's warning.

[rcsaxby]

very cool!

[doro19]

I've been a police officer for 24 years serving in a large urban city where the crime rate is one of the highest in the nation. Twelve of those years, I was a forensic firearms examiner/investigator. I've seen a lot of shootings and homicides that involved the 12 gauge, and my fair share of justifiable homicides where someone successfully defended their life and home with one. With the exception of a few botched suicide attempts, there were not many who survived being shot by a shotgun. I also cannot recall many attacks- criminal or justified - where the range was longer than 20 feet! The longest was by an officer who shot an armed suspect from a distance of 21 yards with Federal Tactical reduced load 00 buck (Flite-Control). All 9 pellet hit his torso within an 8" cluster. I personally favor the rifle for patrol, but I do not feel that one is severely limited if a shotty is all that's available. The shotgun is not a rifle and was never intended to be, but within its niche, it is a short range weapon that is unparallelled. That being said, many departments won't allow rifles for patrol and only offer shotguns. For those officers that are limited to the shotgun you should seek training outside of the mediocre qualification course/training that most departments offer. Too me, lack of training with the shotty is a bigger obstacle that the actual design, in most cases.

[streck]

I find the comments interesting about the shotgun holding 6-9 rounds being a limitation compared to the 30 of the carbine without acknowledging that the OOB shotshell holds 9 (or 12 in the 3") .33 caliber pellets. With most, and especially the Federal Flight Control, ammo, all pellets are delivered within a few inches at home defense ranges.
That means my 6 round shotgun delivers 54 projectiles if loaded with 2 3/4" OOB or 72 if loading 3".

Comparable projectile quantity and delivery can't be matched by the carbine.

And, yes, I am framing this around defending within the home so shots beyond 30ish feet are not a factor.