SureFire's business practices suck!

[Watrdawg]

I have the X300 for my carbine but opted for the TLR-3 for my M&P 45 Midsize. I would have chosed the X300 but it stuck out too far forward of my muzzle for my taste. I like the little TLR-3, however if SF would make a light the size of the TLR-3 I would purchase it in a heartbeat.

Hint, Hint SF!!!!

[threeheadeddog]

X300...IMHO simply no similar product made that is of good(not even equal) quality.

Handhelds..I am now and likely will be untill something else as well made comes along a 4Sevens guy. I am only a sample of 1 but I will say that after owning the 123 tac model for a while I have ZERO concerns about its durability. I work in a factory that makes exhaust systems for some well known vehicles and run a robot welder that I have to regularly work in/around with low light. I use my light about 4+ batteries worth a month(yes I like to show off on high) and am constantly finding myself beating weld slag off the fixtures, using it as a hammer leading with the lens, grinding/snagging/dragging it along walls/cages/grates, and generally beating the crap out of it. I have beat the bezal of it so much I had to smooth out the aluminum with the file on my Gerber because the sharp gouges were tearing my clothes. Most of the finish is worn off around the head and some of it everywhere else.

Does the 4Sevens have its downsides YES. When you turn it on while set on a lower setting it will "flare" to max for a split second before going to the lower setting(I simply turn it on with the head agains my chest), when the battery is going out it goes full retard for about 10min of use and you truely believe it is broke untill you replace the battery, when new(mine is far from) the intigral clip makes programming difficult.

In the end I like the price, I like the interface(2 modes of you choosing 1. is head tight 2. is head 1/2 turn loose), I like the beam options,I like its durability, and I like the quaity of the beam, and I like its brightness.

[threeheadeddog]

Sorry but to be both fair and transparent I also own a 4sevens turbo with less use, and a maelstrom G5 that has had an issue that was fixed by 4sevens(the maelstrom uses a different head design and the standard tactical style lights would not have suffered from the issue I had with it). I also have owned a pentagon(POS) and a currently own an X300.

[Caeser25]

Their prices are a little on the high side but they are superior to every flashlight I ever bought. I had a broken tailcap on my
E2E over in the sandbox. Shot them an emaill and in less than 2 weeks I had a new one free of charge. The G nitrolon series leaves a littel to be desired but the aluminum don't have an equal imho.

[CLHC]

Here's a "similar" kinda sorta "like" a SF.X## light from Laser Devices:

http://www.laserdevices.com/index.cf...S_TAC_2_26.htm

But I have no experience with it. Also did a search here for Laser Devices lights but found none. The LAS/TAC 2's body material is "High Impact Glass Filled Polymer" according to their website.

At this point in time, I'll stick with my SF.X300.

[espnazi]

If you are looking at manufacturing, it could be easier to just have a company do the body's with your name one them and assemble using the different variety of drop in's out there. You could also have someone like Solarforce manufacture something to the standards you want. Solarforce make a great budget light and they also offer some nice drop-ins, and I'm sure they would manufacture something of good quality if you give them the specifications and QC you want accompanied with a large enough order/partnership. Only caveat is Solarfoce is Chinese.

[Wolf Spyder]

I have a bunch of Surefire flashlights and an M951 weaponlight. Everyone of them purchased from somewhere other than a retail store and for a huge savings. Most of these lights were purchased from eBay. I like Surefire flashlights, but they are very expensive.

If I understand this thread correctly, Surefire is going to raise their prices... IMO this is a bad idea. Their flashlights are already too expensive for the average person. Keep in mind, I am a nobody, and I do understand that Surefire's target market is not the average person.

Now to the point of my post;

Does anyone know if all of these new body styles will interface with the parts and pieces of the older body styles? It looks like Surefire is changing things up so the end user can not replace parts and pieces of a "new" SF light with parts and pieces from other manufacturers. The new KX-4 LED is a whole head replacement. They have stopped making the P60L lamp... I am wondering if I buy a new SF light with a new KX-4 head assembly, am I stuck with that assembly as a whole or can I still swap out that LED lamp for brand X lamp? I'm just asking.

On a side note; I sent Surefire an email about a possible modification to my M951. I would like to be able to change my 2 cell M951 to a 3 cell. I can go to ebay and get exactly what I want for $8.oo but the "part" is made in china, of that, I have no doubt. Surefire told me they don't offer the "part" I am looking for as a seperate item, but I could buy the whole assembly for $157.oo. I can buy the whole (3 cell) M961 XM07 on eBay for less than $100 in "new-in-the-plastic-bag" condition.

Now, I know none of this is Surefire's fault, so-to-speak. But when you can buy a whole new weaponlight for less than the price of the sub-assembly... and you can buy a "third-party" part or piece for 1/20th the price of the sub-assembly... Something is wrong with the over all picture. To me it sounds like the beginning of the end...

[patrol120]

The beginning of the end? You have got to be kidding.

The fact that they refuse to make garbage with cheap overseas labor, and actually enforce stringent QC standards does not mean they are going away. Surefire is not going anywhere.

Like I stated earlier, the products are not made for the average joe flashlight guy. They are tools, not toys. Yes, they are expensive. With military and LE pricing, they are affordable, as they are intended to be.

[espnazi]

Although a great deal of overseas manufacturers at the moment have less than favorable QC/machining when compared to SF, i am sure they can get fairly close to the same standard when demanded so.

They only have less QC to keep the price point down, but as many people know if you give the Chinese the specifications you want they will make it. Just look at the knife industry there are several Chinese companies(sanremu) contracted by Spyderco,benchmade, and others. They make a great quality knife for the money the only reason why higher end Chinese knives are not being manufactured is the fact that the Japanese wont allow raw steel to ship out of their country and secondly that the Chinese government heavily taxes some imported steels(Crucible Steels). This should not be a problem when manufacturing flashlights, since they are already making them and have access to good materials they just need to up the quality. If I had the means i would contract a Chinese company to make my products to my standards, just as Sal Glesser did .

[SMGLee]

I have been using a SF product since 1988, when they are still called Laser Product, I have a 6P with Laser Product tail cap on it. so let's just see, this light cost me about 60.00 back in 1989, I have changed plenty of batteries, and updated the lamp to a LED lamp assembly recently, but it has served me without an issue. so 60.00 was as expensive investment in 1989, but 22 years later, I think that 60.00 was well worth every penny spent and I rather got myself a very inexpensive flash light.

As far as most of their aluminium bodies are concern, they do not use extrusion, they actually machine a block of aluminium into a tube, can imagine how much more time and cost that one process requires? cost more, but that makes for an indestructible body.

Many has made replacement LED lamp, but none has approach the SF quality and reliability. so research and development cost money. the lamp assembly development are not based on how much brighter they can get, but a parallel development of brighter, less drain and durability. SF lamp assembly are bar none the best on the market. just look at the new Vampire light, that is just pure innovation....

Today with a salute of flash light on the market, and I have tried many handheld that might equals the SF product, but I have not found one manufacture that can make a weapon light that can out perform the SF product. as far as I am concern SF still owns the weapon mounted light market, but how much longer...I don't know.

I recently had a chance to play with the new Insight WL1-AA, a very interesting weapon mounted light with laser that could give the X300/400 a run for the money. we will see in a few months when it is officially released to commercial market.