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Thread: BAD Lever Bolt Lock Issues... Cut Spring?

  1. #41
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    Safe experimentation is good. I'm curious to know if this solves the issue. If it does without creating a new one, then congrats!

    Mark

  2. #42
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    .

    Dennis,
    Were you able to try the "cut spring" to see if it helped?

    .

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrt View Post
    .

    Dennis,
    Were you able to try the "cut spring" to see if it helped?

    .
    Nope, stupid Super Bowl party and the resulting mess used up all my free time until later this week . I have a fun shooting training day this weekend and I will definitely get to run it through functionality and some more rigorous shooting then.

    Dennis.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Haha, that's pretty much how I feel as well. The point of this thread really isn't about buying a perfect rifle, it's about diagnosing the issue at hand for whatever reason. Hence the forum name "Technical Discussion".

    However, I am heartened by the fact that people are suggesting good quality choices instead of "DPMS/Oly/BM works great for me with 2 BAD's on it to be ambidextrous ". I guess as a group we are getting more informed, although maybe missing the point sometimes in the name of "Tactical/SHTF/Zombie preparedness".

    Now back to the OP intent (mine) I cut 1.75 coils off my spring, basically going slowly to where the catch is being pushed out by 2mm of "push" instead of 3-4mm. This was just an old BM LPK spring I had lying around so I figure it had it coming ... I actually have a few springs lying around from various manufacturers (yes, I keep track) and they are NOT the same. They look slightly different, and if you install and push down on them you can feel the difference. Maybe not a lot but I would bet at least 1.0 coils worth between the least and most. Of my 5 AR's with BADs installed, my cut one only feels slightly less powerful than the rest and it is really more a sliding scale and not a hard less/more thing. Of course, all very unscientific but I have tested so many variables I might as well test one more.

    Dennis.
    The spring is designed to be a squared end spring and winds up being open ended after you neuter it. I'm not sure what is worse, you operating on your rifle or hanging happy meal toys off it.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    The spring is designed to be a squared end spring and winds up being open ended after you neuter it. I'm not sure what is worse, you operating on your rifle or hanging happy meal toys off it.
    Ouch, now that's just not nice or in the spirit of helpful discussion...

    This is just a test that will not result in permanent use regardless of the results for exactly the reason you stated. If it works, then it is either a search for a correct lower powered spring (unlikely), waiting for Magpul or others to create one (also unlikely), or just being happy something was figured out and go back to a correct spring and a normal bolt catch.

    I guess even though you don't sound too happy about people actually having technical discussion on the Technical Discussion forum, you actually did contribute a very helpful fact to this thread. Albeit accidentally I am sure...

    Have a nice day.

    Dennis.

  6. #46
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    Dennis,
    Why don't you reduce weight by sanding the wire down. The old gunsmith way is to spin it at a 45 degree angle against a jewelry belt sander (or other fine grit belt) for a second or two. Keep you fingers away from the end though or you can get it wound into your skin. Spin it on a steel rod/punch/small screw driver/etc. Then polish it to remove any scratches that may cause a weak spot in the wire. More challenging with such a small small spring, but results would be better than cutting coils. You can do it by hand too, just not as fast or good as the belt sander method.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMD View Post
    Dennis,
    Why don't you reduce weight by sanding the wire down. The old gunsmith way is to spin it at a 45 degree angle against a jewelry belt sander (or other fine grit belt) for a second or two. Keep you fingers away from the end though or you can get it wound into your skin. Spin it on a steel rod/punch/small screw driver/etc. Then polish it to remove any scratches that may cause a weak spot in the wire. More challenging with such a small small spring, but results would be better than cutting coils. You can do it by hand too, just not as fast or good as the belt sander method.
    Now that sounds like fun So you hold the spring (somehow) at a 45 angle against the edge of the belt and let it "spin" down it's length rotating the spring and taking a bit off at the same time?

    Definitely something I have not thought of before, does it weaken any sort of surface hardness?

    Again, probably not ideal but better than cutting...

    Assuming, of course, that a cut/weaker spring actually works in this case

    Thanks!

    Dennis.

  8. #48
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    The spring spins itself. Coil springs are tempered all the way through so not an issue. You just hold it at 45 degrees to the direction the belt travels - it is still completely parallel the full length of the spring to the belt surface. You move it back and forth a short distance so you get equal pressure across the belt/spring. And you don't want to apply any pressure to the spring or do it over the steel backing plate behind the belt, near the pulley/s. If you push you'll get a flat spot around the coil and that isn't the goal (you don't want a "D" shape instead of the original "O" cross section of the coil wire). That is unavoidable with large diameter coil wire, but with such a small spring and small rate change that you are seeking - it won't take much to reduce it - just scuff of the outside diameter will do. If you are worried about getting too close to the belt you can find a piece of rod that is bendable to create a stop - like aluminum or use your thumb nail as a stop for the spring. The thumbnail technique requires that the spring be rotating in a direction opposite of the cut end of wire. I've done it that way with small weak coils and it works OK. If you do it the other way so the sharp cut end is rotating into your thumbnail be prepared for some instant bamboo torture under nail experience If your really concerned about getting too close you can tape on a small washer as a stop (again not with cut spring end rotating into it) and just polish/sand over half the spring at a time at the outer edge. The results are just harder to get even. Good luck. I'd just sand it by hand if you're worried about it - hold it on a rod with 600 grit around it. Just make sure the rod is a good fit if you are doing it by hand.

    I still think you want a higher spring rate instead of a weaker one too prevent the bolt from locking at the wrong time with the bad. Bottom line play with it and see what happens. I think the spring is more than strong enough to compensate for the bad components, but everyone's gun is different so who knows. It's not like that spring costs much. Maybe you'll end up affecting a change with a Magpul product. I personally think it is working as designed.
    Last edited by OMD; 02-09-11 at 14:43.

  9. #49
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    Oh well.

    A bolt catch spring with 1.75 coils cut off only helped marginally.

    A visibly shorter new carbine action spring (10.5") actually did not help at all.

    I thought this might happen so at the range I switched back to a new bolt catch spring, my Sprinco blue action spring, and a H buffer and happily shot up 400+ rounds of drills with no issues with cycling or bolt lock issues with any magazines.

    It seems my Noveske 16" midlength just does not like any sort of BAD in any way

    Dennis.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Oh well.

    A bolt catch spring with 1.75 coils cut off only helped marginally.

    A visibly shorter new carbine action spring (10.5") actually did not help at all.

    I thought this might happen so at the range I switched back to a new bolt catch spring, my Sprinco blue action spring, and a H buffer and happily shot up 400+ rounds of drills with no issues with cycling or bolt lock issues with any magazines.

    It seems my Noveske 16" midlength just does not like any sort of BAD in any way

    Dennis.
    ==================================

    Dennis, are you saying the BAD on the Noveske worked locking the bolt back with the Blue Sprinco but would not hold the bolt back with Noveske's stock action springs?

    .

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