Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 70

Thread: BAD Lever Bolt Lock Issues... Cut Spring?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Cesspool, CA
    Posts
    170
    Feedback Score
    12 (100%)
    This is one of those times, like Rob said above, where you are screwing with something that will get you &*%$ed. One, cutting coils off springs has no effect on spring rate, unless you have a progressive spring like the disconnector. The spring rate on the bolt catch spring is constant. It should be common sense that if you reduce the overall compressed length enough, that at some point, you will run out of travel to prevent the bolt from locking when it shouldn't. DON'T cut the spring. If anything you want to increase the spring rate to overcome any additional weight on the bolt catch added by the BAD lever and components. Since this is minimal it SHOULDN'T be an issue. If it was MAGPUL should have provided a new spring with minimal increase in rate. I would suspect their engineers knew that and that was the most important factor as to their low weight alloy design. If someone can document repeated failures with operator error removed, then contact Magpul.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    101
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    After close inspection of any contact between the BAD & Lower, I noticed the lever was indeed contacting the front of trigger well when I would rock the lever forward. I 'tweaked' the lever (after removing from paddle) back a bit, now no more contact. I still had a failure to hold the bolt open on a 20 round pmag this weekend. Only happened once on the 20 round mag (prolly ran 5 times) and not once on a 30 round mag, which was run thru about 5 times as well.
    I have had problems with the 20 round mag since I bought it. I had to relieve the follower before I ever used it, as it was too tight in the mag & was binding during loading & unloading. Dunno whats up w/ their 20 rounders--seems like alot of folks have issues with them.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Southern Kali...
    Posts
    1,027
    Feedback Score
    43 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by mpom View Post
    I would not cut the spring, as its not very powerful to begin with, and its purpose to keep bolt/bc from locking back when it shouldn't. That would be a Bad Thing during a serious situation; self defense, or costing time during competition.
    Had an issue with bolt/bc dropping with a reload, leaving an empty chamber, after installing a BAD. Suspect my right index finger may have hit it after pressing mag release. Since it was used and I was not going to get much by selling it, decided to modify it. Ended up cutting off most of grooved flat section on tip of BAD, no more issues. Made it a little lighter as well, which is a good thing.

    Mark
    I had the same problem with "pre-mature bolt drops" with the BAD during training, until I trained my finger to go somewhere else during reloading. However, cutting the tip off is a pretty good idea as well!

    Dennis.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    740
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    I don't know what it is but I just don't get these things at all.

    I have 5 AR15s; 10.5"/14.5"/16"carbine/16"mid length/18" and all run with a BAD lever without any issues, with standard springs from their respective factories: Colt,LMT,DD,BCM.

    Then I have 5 1911s 3"/4.25"/3x5" and I run all stock weight springs and all these weapons needed nothing from their factory configuration to run properly. Even the 5" 1911 A1 from 1943 runs perfectly...

    Either I'm the luckiest ****er around, or people are just getting shit specs.

    A correctly built AR is exactly like a correctly built 1911, 100% reliable over thousands and thousands of rounds.
    That's because you, like me, buy Colt 1911s (with a WW2 Remington Rand for good measure). And gee, they actually work. Go figure.

    I try telling people it's not the design, it's the 2,000 manufacturers of them and the 3 million manufacturers of magazines that cause the problems. I keep mine Colt, my magazines Colt hybrid or USGI 7 rounders and they run fine. If I want aftermarket parts I make sure the gunsmith I take them to for installation knows his asshole from a hole in the ground. It's not rocket science.
    Last edited by .45fmjoe; 02-07-11 at 13:28.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Southern Kali...
    Posts
    1,027
    Feedback Score
    43 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    Cutting springs is always a bad idea. It decreases the number of active coils and forces an increase in spring rate. Always consider the law of unintended consequences before cutting a spring.
    Quote Originally Posted by mpom View Post
    I would not cut the spring, as its not very powerful to begin with, and its purpose to keep bolt/bc from locking back when it shouldn't. That would be a Bad Thing during a serious situation; self defense, or costing time during competition.
    Mark

    Quote Originally Posted by OMD View Post
    This is one of those times, like Rob said above, where you are screwing with something that will get you &*%$ed. One, cutting coils off springs has no effect on spring rate, unless you have a progressive spring like the disconnector. The spring rate on the bolt catch spring is constant. It should be common sense that if you reduce the overall compressed length enough, that at some point, you will run out of travel to prevent the bolt from locking when it shouldn't. DON'T cut the spring. If anything you want to increase the spring rate to overcome any additional weight on the bolt catch added by the BAD lever and components. Since this is minimal it SHOULDN'T be an issue. If it was MAGPUL should have provided a new spring with minimal increase in rate. I would suspect their engineers knew that and that was the most important factor as to their low weight alloy design. If someone can document repeated failures with operator error removed, then contact Magpul.
    I appreciate everyone's concern here, and I would be the first to tell others/possible newby's not to do something like this. However, my goal here is to just discuss various possible options from a technical (hence the forum name) and exploratory perspective. This is NOT a duty, self defense, or competition gun. It is a factory Noveske upper on a pre-ban lower (CA rules) that has seen many thousands of failure free rounds down range with many uppers. I actually have a few pre-ban lowers with over a dozen uppers over years that have been failure free, but not with this Noveske with a BAD.

    The real problem could be the upper but Noveske basically said that they do not guarantee the upper with a BAD and I cannot blame them. I am just testing out things to see what works mostly out of curiosity's sake although I posted here to get extra info and some help, and I have received some good input.

    So thanks everyone for the help and concern, and don't worry I won't be cutting any springs in my duty Glocks, S&W's, or Benelli anytime soon! Although my auto knives could use a stronger spring

    Dennis.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    120
    Feedback Score
    0
    OK.....so let me get this straight.......it sounds like the consensus is that I picked piss poor manufactures for my upper and lower and should have let a qualified "gunsmith" install the bad lever and assemble my upper and lower. I need to call BCM and Daniel Defense and let them know that their products are pure shit since the rifle doesn't like to run with an add-on accessory with shit ammo and that everyone else has never had a problem in 10 million rounds..........?

    At least I do have a "Colt" LPK......but I screwed that up by installing a shitty Geissele trigger.........

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    72
    Feedback Score
    0
    I run BAD levers on my Spike/BCM and my Accurate Armory. I have had zero issues so far. Both ARs have been run during carbine courses as well. I have been pleased over all with the product.
    I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns - Mark Wahlberg "Shooter"

    Once you are able to kill mentally, the physical part will be easy. The difficult part... is learning how to turn it off. - Tommy Lee Jones "The Hunted"

    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,148
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by 01tundra View Post
    OK.....so let me get this straight.......it sounds like the consensus is that I picked piss poor manufactures for my upper and lower and should have let a qualified "gunsmith" install the bad lever and assemble my upper and lower. I need to call BCM and Daniel Defense and let them know that their products are pure shit since the rifle doesn't like to run with an add-on accessory with shit ammo and that everyone else has never had a problem in 10 million rounds..........?

    At least I do have a "Colt" LPK......but I screwed that up by installing a shitty Geissele trigger.........
    what does the trigger have to do with the BAD?

    I think you're missing the point of the posts.

    This topic has been discussed to death here, but there are all sorts of theories, even some good ones, about what makes for a problematic BAD experience vs. a good one. None of them have had anything to do with the brand specifically.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    120
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    what does the trigger have to do with the BAD?

    I think you're missing the point of the posts.

    This topic has been discussed to death here, but there are all sorts of theories, even some good ones, about what makes for a problematic BAD experience vs. a good one. None of them have had anything to do with the brand specifically.
    No actually I got the point, I was replying to the couple of previous comments that basically eluded that if people would just buy Colt rifles or let qualified people install their accessories there wouldn't be any problems......that was just my poor attempt at being a smart ass in reply to those comments that don't do much for helping figure out "why" some rifles will run fine with a BAD installed and some not so much. I personally think it is most of the time a combination of smaller issues that make for the "perfect storm" of not working. What I don't believe is that "just because mine has never had a problem" necessarily means that "ours" are shit equipment that are "out of spec", as some people sound like they believe. If that's really the case, then it sounds like BCM & others have a hell of a quality control problem since some run and some don't.

    I also feel pretty confident that it's not "me" that's causing the problem when I'm test firing the rifle specifically to check for bolt lock back and that's all I'm concentrating on. Now if it locked back during testing, but when I go to do some shooting with it I start having functional problems, then yeah, it's probably me sticking my finger where it doesn't belong......that didn't sound too good did it?

    Until there's a comprehensive list of - mine works flawlessly with "X" buffer and "Y" spring and "Z" ammo, then there's no way to really figure it out what the common denominator is, but as you mentioned in a previous reply, there may really be no rhyme or reason for it anyways.

    So don't mind me...it just gets under my skin a little when people are trying to collectively figure out why something does what it does and there's always that random drive by "it's because you have a piece of shit" comment thrown in for good measure. I realize there's plenty of posts on the topic and I have read all of those, but I'm no closer to understanding what's really going on. It's not like I'm saying Magpul BAD's are junk, if that's how I felt then I would simply toss it in the damn trash can and move along quietly. But you'll also never see me make a random comment like "well I'd say your Colt piece of shit only works because it's so out of spec and loose that it doesn't know any better" .
    Last edited by 01tundra; 02-07-11 at 16:27.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Southern Kali...
    Posts
    1,027
    Feedback Score
    43 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by 01tundra View Post
    No actually I got the point, I was replying to the couple of previous post that basically eluded that if people would just buy Colt rifles or let qualified people install their accessories there wouldn't be any problems......I was basically being a smart ass in reply to those comments that don't do much for helping figure out "why" some rifles will run fine with a BAD installed and some not so much. I personally think it is most of the time a combination of smaller issues that make for the "perfect storm" of not working. What I don't believe is that "just because mine has never had a problem" necessarily means that "ours" are shit equipment that are "out of spec", as some people sound like they believe. If that's really the case, then it sounds like BCM & others have a hell of a quality control problem since some run and some don't.

    Until there's a comprehensive list of - mine works flawlessly with "X" buffer and "Y" spring and "Z" ammo, then there's no way to really figure it out what the common denominator is, but as you mentioned in a previous reply, there may really be no rhyme or reason for it anyways.

    So don't mind me...it just gets under my skin a little when people are trying to collectively figure out why something does what it does and there's always that random drive by "it's because you have a piece of shit" comment thrown in. I realize there's plenty of posts and I have read those, but I'm no closer to understanding what's really going on. It's not like I'm saying Magpul BAD's are junk, if that's how I felt then I would simply toss it in the damn trash can. But you'll also never see me make a random comment like "well I'd say your Colt piece of shit only works because it's so out of spec and loose that it doesn't know any better" .
    Haha, that's pretty much how I feel as well. The point of this thread really isn't about buying a perfect rifle, it's about diagnosing the issue at hand for whatever reason. Hence the forum name "Technical Discussion".

    However, I am heartened by the fact that people are suggesting good quality choices instead of "DPMS/Oly/BM works great for me with 2 BAD's on it to be ambidextrous ". I guess as a group we are getting more informed, although maybe missing the point sometimes in the name of "Tactical/SHTF/Zombie preparedness".

    Now back to the OP intent (mine) I cut 1.75 coils off my spring, basically going slowly to where the catch is being pushed out by 2mm of "push" instead of 3-4mm. This was just an old BM LPK spring I had lying around so I figure it had it coming ... I actually have a few springs lying around from various manufacturers (yes, I keep track) and they are NOT the same. They look slightly different, and if you install and push down on them you can feel the difference. Maybe not a lot but I would bet at least 1.0 coils worth between the least and most. Of my 5 AR's with BADs installed, my cut one only feels slightly less powerful than the rest and it is really more a sliding scale and not a hard less/more thing. Of course, all very unscientific but I have tested so many variables I might as well test one more.

    Dennis.

Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •