Do we need more than 12" Penetration today?

[DocGKR]

For pistol, typically 3 meters; also some shots at 25 meters.

For rifle, typically 3-10 meters, 100 meters, and 300 meters.

[TN-popo]

No. Properly calibrated gel exhibits a 1:1 relationship with live tissue.

In the vast majority of shootings that I've seen/responded to, real life penetration is usually a lot less than what is seen in 10% gel testing results.

[BufordTJustice]

No. Properly calibrated gel exhibits a 1:1 relationship with live tissue.

As the Doc has stated, live tissue is not homogenous. It is composed of a variety of very different tissues of varying densities and strengths. Properly calibrated ballistic gelatin is only a calculated approximation of the live tissue found in our body. It can only ever be an approximation because it is, by it's very nature, a gross over simplification of the human machine.

Further, bal-gel does not account for the striking of bone or bones, nor does it account for the elastic strength of the skin on the back side of the body. In a torso shot, the skin on the exit side can be equivalent to nearly 2" of calibrated bal-gel penetration.

Either way, we arrive at the same conclusion....over penetration is much less of a concern than under penetration.

[spdldr]

In the vast majority of shootings that I've seen/responded to, real life penetration is usually a lot less than what is seen in 10% gel testing results.

It takes about 125 fps just to penetrate skin and 200 fps to penetrate bone. Then, if the subject is wearing clothing, who knows how much velocity is lost due to that? Especially if it is nylon, a material used for the original fabric body armor.

Gel is just a laboratory substance that enables us to compare apples to apples.

[tpd223]

In the vast majority of shootings that I've seen/responded to, real life penetration is usually a lot less than what is seen in 10% gel testing results.

Weird. I often see more penetration from shootings I have worked, especially with our duty ammo.

[Beat Trash]

EXPECT that follow-up shots will be needed. More bullets is good. Spare magazine is good. Prepare for pistol whipping and ground fighting is good.

It's a pistol. Keep shooting until the bad guy stops, and get ready to fight if he doesn't realize he is dead.

From the various shootings I've responded to over the years (the last one being about 10:30 PM last night - bullet entered the upper left back area, traversed down and to the right, missing anything important) I've seen bullets over and under penetrate and stop the individual. I've seen bullets over and under penetrate and fail to stop the individual.

The above quote best sums up my current thoughts on the subject.

A reliable gun, good tactics appropriately used, and shot placement. Repeat if necessary until the incident is over.

[Glock17JHP]

I prefer loads in the 13.5 to 15 inch penetration range... and I like them to be as uniform as possible in various barrier testing (barrier blind).

[kh86]

I've only read up specific topics in terminal ballistics so I'm curious: At what distance are rounds fired into the gel to determine penetration in I guess the "standard" test?

The number that I keep comming across is 10 ft.

[DocGKR]

kh86--See post #21 above in this thread

[Grytpype]

For pistol, typically 3 meters; also some shots at 25 meters.

For rifle, typically 3-10 meters, 100 meters, and 300 meters.

Are you downloading ammo to replicate velocity at the longer rifle ranges?