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Thread: New stoppage encountered today... for me at least

  1. #11
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    Popped primers are more common than most people think. Popped primers landing in the most weird places (Cam pin holes, inside gas keys, in gas tubes) and locking up the weapon. If you're lucky, it will just pop loose and not get lodged into anything. As others have stated, it's usually with out of specked chambers (BM, Oly, Stag, DPMS) and XM193.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  2. #12
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    Sounds like my black powder revolver!

    I have heard about this but never seen one. Almost all of my shooting has been military rifles/carbines and ammo (M193/M855). Is there a known way to clear this type stoppage without disassembly?

  3. #13
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    SS109 is the actual 62gr bullet with the steel penertator. US ammo loaded with this bullet is M855. If this ammo was real M193 there is no telling why it was sold off, and what issues that particular lot of ammo might have had.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    Anyone happen to inspect this ammo before the training?

    Also as a side question; isn't SS109 was green tip?

  4. #14
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    This ammo was true M193. I saw the boxes.

    The ammo was training rounds that the department brought to the range with them to use during the class. Where they bought it from, I have no clue. I did not ask.

    How the agency stored it is also unknown to me. I dealt with the stoppage, and wanted to show it since it's the first time I had ever seen it.

    We had a few students that bought some reloads with them... 55 grain... that they purchased on their own, because their agency did not provide them with ammo for the course. They had issues with the cartridges getting stuck in the chambers... but this blown primer was from the M193.
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    SGT Steven McGovern KIA - Iraq 21 APR 05.

    A friend, a brother, a true quiet professional. You will NEVER be forgotten.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    Sounds like my black powder revolver!

    I have heard about this but never seen one. Almost all of my shooting has been military rifles/carbines and ammo (M193/M855). Is there a known way to clear this type stoppage without disassembly?
    The civilian variants of M193, start with an X, since it is illegal to sell real M193 to civilians. I honestly don't think they make real M193 anymore these days. The XM193 variants (XM193C,D, F, etc...) seems to be the main culprit in most anecdotal stories, but it has happened with other brands as well, again with manufactures to the far left of the chart, with barrels stamped 5.56, when the chambers are in fact .223 chambers. In a VTAC 1.5 Carbine class, one guy (don't remember the weapon) had so many popped primers with XM193 ammo, he couldn't make it through a single relay without getting one on TD 1. Talk about frustration and being pissed off. Lucky he was able to obtain another case of ammo of a different type to finish the last two days.

    Unfortunately, if the primer get's stuck in a weird location where it locks up the gun, you will have to disassemble the weapon, remove it and inspect for damage, or you should, before operating the gun again safely.
    For God and the soldier we adore, In time of danger, not before! The danger passed, and all things righted, God is forgotten and the soldier slighted." - Rudyard Kipling

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt_Gold View Post
    SS109 is the actual 62gr bullet with the steel penertator. US ammo loaded with this bullet is M855. If this ammo was real M193 there is no telling why it was sold off, and what issues that particular lot of ammo might have had.
    Thanks,

    My point was M193 does not have a green tip and is not SS109/M855

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    Thanks,

    My point was M193 does not have a green tip and is not SS109/M855
    This M193 does not have a green tip. I was incorrect in calling it SS109 I guess. The boxes are marked M193, and the rounds do not have a green tip. I do not recall the boxes having an "x" in front either. This ammo belonged to a Federal Agency, so it was not civilian.

    Sorry if I started any confusion.
    Last edited by DMack; 02-03-11 at 22:55.
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    SGT Steven McGovern KIA - Iraq 21 APR 05.

    A friend, a brother, a true quiet professional. You will NEVER be forgotten.

  8. #18
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    SS109 is not M-193.

    SS109 is the name of the 62 grain green-tipped(if made in the US) steel insert penetrator projectile that tops off an M-855 round.

    M-193 ALWAYS contains a 55 grain copper-jacketed, 100% lead core, full metal jacketed boat-tail projectile.

    Almost sounds like the notoriously primer-popping Federal XM-193.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  9. #19
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    DMack,

    Since it sounds like you were able to push the BC forward by hand, do you think it could have been dislodged by bumping the muzzle on the ground or a hard surface?

    I'm thinking about possible emergency action here.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    DMack,

    Since it sounds like you were able to push the BC forward by hand, do you think it could have been dislodged by bumping the muzzle on the ground or a hard surface?

    I'm thinking about possible emergency action here.
    Redhat,

    Honestly... I could not make the BCG budge until I relieved the pressure off the buffer spring, by removing the buffer tube. The rifle was locked up tight.

    I was really stumped.

    My first thought was that a lug had broken off the bolt, but once I looked at it closely, I could see the primer stuck up above the gas key.

    This is why I posted this stoppage. I apologize if I caused any confusion in my initial post. I was very tired... long week this week.

    We are going to run rifle and handgun tables again today, with some shotgun mixed in. I spoke with the operator of this rifle yesterday, and asked him to let me know if there were any other issues.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    SGT Steven McGovern KIA - Iraq 21 APR 05.

    A friend, a brother, a true quiet professional. You will NEVER be forgotten.

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