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Thread: AAR for the Vickers Battle Rifle Class 1-2 Sept. 07

  1. #1
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    AAR for the Vickers Battle Rifle Class 1-2 Sept. 07

    Great class! I enjoyed it and got a lot out of it.

    Before decent surplus 7.62 NATO ammo got stupidly expensive, it was the caliber I shot the most. I really enjoy the "manly rifles".

    Great personal instruction from Larry Vickers and David P. We had a great group of really switched on guys.

    We had a close ratio between FAL's and M14's (M1A), with one guy bringing out a M1 Garand, and one shooter using his FAL for the first day and his PTR-91(G3 clone) for the second day.

    Thoughts....

    The class confirmed a lot of what I already thought, that of the "Big Three" (M14, FAL, G3), the FAL takes top prize as the best all around battle rifle. The M14 takes a pretty close second place. The safety position and manipulation of the M14 sucks. The lack of decent mounting options for optics holds the M14 back as well.

    The G3 system, while reliable, has worse ergonomics than an AK, and pushes the shooter around more under recoil compared to either the M14 or the FAL.

    Generally, FAL triggers suck, and there isn't alot to be done about it for now. FAL's really should have the full length gas system that they were designed for, and really shouldn't have barrels less than 16".

    A decent sling is a MUST. No two ways around it, you've got to have a decent sling that will allow you to transition to your handgun or to your off shoulder in as little time as possible and with as little fuss as possible.

    No one brought out an AR variant in 7.62 NATO, which I was hoping someone would.

    One shooter brought out a DSA OSW with an 11" barrel. While that little beastie sure was cool, it was having some serious reliablity problems. Another shooter brought out an 18" M1A dressed out in a SAGE stock, it was a cool motor scooter for sure.

    I used a DSA StG-58STD as my primary. I picked the rifle up the day before, sighted it in, and swapped out the handguards for a set of non bipod cut Rhodesian ones, and swapped the buttstock for a German/Rhodesian/South African walnut stock. The heavy Stoll flash suppressor was replaced with a standard Belgian type and the bipod was taken off. Basically I turned it into a Rhodesian/South African R1 clone.

    The rifle performed flawlessly for the entire course with the exception of the very last exercise where it was taken out of action by some very bad ammo that another shooter brought, and a brain fart on my part for using it.

    I know that 7.62 NATO ammo prices are stupidly expensive now, but these are expensive rifles.....don't feed them crap.

    Shooting a box drill with full power battle rifles will definitely seperate the men from the boys......these are heavier recoiling rifles that make getting quick follow up shots much more difficult compared to a 5.56mm carbine.

    I had my father take this class as a retirement present. He'd never done anything like this, but he learned a lot and had a great time. He took a way a set of skills that he will definitely be working on. I can't thank Larry Vickers, David P., and the guys in the class enough for helping him out and making him feel welcome. Thank you.

    Here are some pics. Unfortunately I didn't get an opportunity to take many, I was just too busy shooting...

    High resolution 2 meg pics can be found here:

    Day 1: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20Full%20Size/

    Day 2: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...20Full%20Size/


    Day 1:











    Target was the itty-bitty steel in the middle, between the silhouettes.



    A little off shoulder action:

















    Employee of colonialshooting.com

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    Day 2:



















    Employee of colonialshooting.com

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    Great AAR and pics! This was one of those classes that I was hoping I could attend, but finances and time forced me to choose between "nice to have" (this class) and "must have" (Hack/Vick Night/LL).

    HAD I taken this class, I would have used my 16" DSA FAL, which looks like a good choice. Mine is blessed with a pretty decent trigger.

    I can imagine that there were probably some gear issues, since items are not as specialized/optimized as AR stuff. How did the reloads go for the FAL?

    Too bad nobody showed up with a .308 Saiga conversion - I bet Larry would have gone bannanas!

    p.s. which rifle did your Pops shoot?

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    Funny how the FAL starts to have issues when you chop it too short and start to do weird stuff just like the AR does....

    I guess there is a lesson in that somewhere....

    Looks like a fun class. I wish I could have attended with my Garand.

  5. #5
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    We missed you guys, seriously.

    My father is the guy with the beard, red ear muffs, blue T shirt and BDU pants, shooting a Springfield M1A. The M1A was built up for me by the guys at Springfield after the original one decided to shit the bed and the barrel unscrewed from the receiver under fire. It's now all GI with the exception of the receiver. The barrel was a new-never issued TRW. The customer service/repair guys at Springfield took care of me. My father now has a Vickers sling, which he desperately needed.

    Mag changes on the FAL were a non issue for me because of my familiarity with the system, it's easier than an AK. For guys coming in off of the AR system, remembering to rock them in is the key, same with the M14 and the G3 though.

    If I still had my Galil in 7.62 I would have brought that too....
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

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    Pretty cool Tim. Glad you and your dad could share this.

  7. #7
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    Larry promised to bring some exotic toys.....

    What did he bring? Do you have pics of them? Why have said pics not been posted yet?

    Help us poor bastards who are trying to live vicariously here!

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    Very curious.

    How did the Garand do out there?

  9. #9
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    Another outstanding Vickers Tactical class completed. Thanks Templar for the great review and for posting pictures.

    FYI- this is now a standard Vickers Tactical course and will be offered again in South Hill (2008) or any adequate range if you would like to host a class at your location.

    Just contact Larry through the VT website (www.vickerstactical.com) or shoot me an email/PM.
    Paul A. Hotaling
    Alias Training & Security Services, LLC
    Paul@aliastraining.com
    757-215-1959 (Mon-Fri 8AM-5PM)
    757-985-9586 (After Hours)
    www.aliastraining.com


  10. #10
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    As soon as I get my shoulder and arm issues sorted out I will be there with an SBR AR-10.....

    Putting off surgery at the moment and I didn't think 1,000rds of 7.62x51 would be good for an injured shoulder.

    Looked like fun though.

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