Why is the terror threat level so high?

[montanadave]

And far from being on the brink of becoming another free democracy, the protesters in Egypt are actually agents of the Muslim Brotherhood much as the Vietnam anti war movement actually had it's roots in Hanoi.

Yeah, OK.



I think I'll just mosey on down the road.

[SteyrAUG]

Yeah, OK.



I think I'll just mosey on down the road.

You really don't know anything about anything do you?

What government do you think invited Jane Fonda to engage in anti war propaganda for them? Did you know Jane Fonda returned to Vietnam in 1975 to celebrate their victory?

More on Jane as an active agent for Hanoi in the US anti war movement here:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

The group Vietnam Veterans Against The War was actual a front for the Vietnamese government in Hanoi designed to foster opposition to the war in the US.

http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticp...p?page=puppets

"July 17, 1971 -- Following a month-long speaking tour of the Soviet
Union and other countries, six VVAW and CCI members meet with PRG
representatives in Paris to show support for the communist peace plan.

July 20, 1971 -- Leaders of the VVAW hold a staff meeting. They agree to use the designations favored by North Vietnam (Democratic Republic of Vietnam) and the Vietcong (Provisional Revolutionary Government) for future press releases, decide to remove all American flags from VVAW offices, and discuss how best to handle Al Hubbard's planned trip to Hanoi.

July 24, 1971 -- The Daily World features a photograph of John Kerry
speaking in support of the Provisional Revolutionary Government
(Vietcong) Seven Point Plan. (At the time, John Kerry was still in the United States Navy.)

August, 1971 -- The FBI opens a full investigation of the VVAW
to "determine the extent of control over VVAW by subversive groups
and/or violence-prone elements in the antiwar movement," noting
that "sources had provided information that VVAW was stockpiling
weapons, VVAW had been in contact with North Vietnam officials in
Paris, France, VVAW was receiving funds from former CPUSA members and
VVAW was aiding and financing U.S. military deserters. Additionally,
information had been received that some individual chapters
throughout the country had been infiltrated by the youth groups of
the CPUSA and the SWP [Socialist Workers Party]." Source: FBI
Memorandum to Senate Select Committee, 12/2/75, pp. 2-3; Hearings,
Vol. 6, Exhibit 72.


August, 1971 -- VVAW Executive Committee member Joe Urgo travels with
other antiwar leaders to North Vietnam, where he meets with Prime
Minister Pham Van Dong and others. According to FBI records, (see PDF
file) Urgo makes the following proposals to the communist leaders: 1)
that the VVAW make tapes to be broadcast over Radio Hanoi to get U.S.
troops to stop fighting, and 2) to send a VVAW delegation to Hanoi in
the near future.

August, 1971 -- Kerry travels to Paris to meet with the North
Vietnamese delegation to the Paris Peace Talks. Source: FBI HQ 100-
448092 Section 5, 216-231 (esp. 230).

Late August, 1971 -- Kerry and Hubbard meet with leftist millionaires
in East Hampton to promote the VVAW and show film clips of atrocity
claims from the Winter Soldier Investigation. According to the New
York Times, a request for funds had the attendees "scrambling for
pens and checkbooks."

Early November, 1971 -- According to FBI records, (see PDF file) Al
Hubbard meets with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in
Paris. Hubbard's trip comes in response to an invitation to "VVAW,
Communist Party (CP) USA, and left wing group in Paris, name
unrecalled," and is financed by the Communist Party USA.

November 7, 1971 -- John Kerry tells the Sunday Oklahoman that the
political power structure within the United States can and must
change if the nation is to avoid violent efforts to seize power,
saying, "If it (the government) doesn't change we are asking for
trouble. If it is not done, those who are talking about seizing it
will have every right to go after it." [see page 251 of Section 10 of
the VVAW FBI files]

November 12 - 15, 1971 -- the VVAW leadership meets in Kansas City.
Fearing surveillance by authorities, the group relocates the meeting
to another building. They debate, then vote down a plan to
assassinate several pro-war U.S. Senators. Despite John Kerry's claim
to have left the VVAW before this event, several witnesses, meeting
minutes and FBI records eventually place Kerry at the Kansas City
meeting."

Lots more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~american_families/id45.html

[BrianS]

The terror alert system was meant to keep the sheep scared of the goat ****ers half way around the world. Ive never met a single person who pays any attention to it or could even tell you regularly what the current threat level supposedly is anyways.

Beyond not knowing what the threat level is I have never understood what the different levels even mean or if anything actually changes between the different levels.

[glocktogo]

The HSAS alert system was publicized to make the public believe that the .gov was doing something that they cannot do, which is do something meaningful to prevent terrorist attacks. Within the domestic homeland security system, the different levels require the implementation of additional security measures. In reality, most of these measures are unlikely to prevent or mitigate a terrorist attack. Ostensibly, publishing the system should prompt the public to be extra vigilant and report suspicious activities. In reality, they overused the increased levels to the point that the public is immune to the message and thinks its stupid. The public at large has not received any training on identifying pre-attack terrorist activity, so by the time they see the threat, its when the attack is underway.

Ultimately, all the HSAS system was good for was justifying additional expenditures in the hopes that throwing money at the problem would somehow make it all better.

[montanadave]

You really don't know anything about anything do you?

Personal insult aside, I know shitty logic when I see it.

Your previous statements with regards to both the protestors in Egypt and those Americans who opposed the Vietnam War sought to impugn the character of all participants by conflating their motives with a minority group amongst the protestors.

I'll leave the primer on logic for another day, but suffice it to say these arguments are invalid for a host of reasons, both formal (e.g. affirming the consequent) and informal (e.g. fallacy of composition).

Robert Welch, Jr. and the John Birch Society also argued against the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Based on your specious logic (or, more accurately, sophistry), the Birchers were either covert communist sympathizers or, heavens to Betsy, Jane Fonda was secretly a member of the John Birch Society.

Now, lest the mods accuse me of bickering and hijacking this thread, I truly am gonna mosey on down the road.

[Belmont31R]

Personal insult aside, I know shitty logic when I see it.

Your previous statements with regards to both the protestors in Egypt and those Americans who opposed the Vietnam War sought to impugn the character of all participants by conflating their motives with a minority group amongst the protestors.

I'll leave the primer on logic for another day, but suffice it to say these arguments are invalid for a host of reasons, both formal (e.g. affirming the consequent) and informal (e.g. fallacy of composition).

Robert Welch, Jr. and the John Birch Society also argued against the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Based on your specious logic (or, more accurately, sophistry), the Birchers were either covert communist sympathizers or, heavens to Betsy, Jane Fonda was secretly a member of the John Birch Society.

Now, lest the mods accuse me of bickering and hijacking this thread, I truly am gonna mosey on down the road.

That minority group amongst the protesters are the people organizing the protest. SDS did it, and still do this day.

[SteyrAUG]

Personal insult aside, I know shitty logic when I see it.

It wasn't an insult so much as an assessment. Seems I have had a lot of discussions with you where you have formed definite opinions without any real knowledge of the subject.

Your previous statements with regards to both the protestors in Egypt and those Americans who opposed the Vietnam War sought to impugn the character of all participants by conflating their motives with a minority group amongst the protestors.

Only with respect to the fact that like you, they have been duped into doing the work of those they would actually oppose if they knew the truth. Hardly anything new, hell we have 9-11 truthers who INSIST that OUR GOVERNMENT was directly involved in the 9-11 attacks.

The bottom line is Hanoi USED the American anti war movement to win the war. No battle was every lost in Vietnam, the entire war was lost stateside and culminated with Kronkite announcing a major victory for the North with the Tet Offensive (even though it was actually devastating for the north) and that the war was unwinnable.

Hanoi actively organized, supported and manipulated the US anti war movement, specifically through the group VVAW. To think that they wouldn't is to completely not understand the Asian mindset or military tactics. This move to undermine the US at home is straight out of Sun Tzu. And like most operations of this kind, the actual participants are completely ignorant of the true motives.

We saw it again in Iran where the Islamic revolution was "supposedly" about addressing human rights issues under the Shah (who ironically was the first in his family to attempt to implement reforms) when in fact the true intent was to establish and Islamic theocracy. And we are seeing exactly the same thing in Egypt. The ONLY "freedom" movement that has been attempted in the Middle East was actually in Iran and it failed.

I'll leave the primer on logic for another day, but suffice it to say these arguments are invalid for a host of reasons, both formal (e.g. affirming the consequent) and informal (e.g. fallacy of composition).

Robert Welch, Jr. and the John Birch Society also argued against the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Based on your specious logic (or, more accurately, sophistry), the Birchers were either covert communist sympathizers or, heavens to Betsy, Jane Fonda was secretly a member of the John Birch Society.

Now, lest the mods accuse me of bickering and hijacking this thread, I truly am gonna mosey on down the road.

No, they objected for different reasons, and mostly valid ones. For example the Gulf of Tonkin incident was fabricated. There were many, many reasons to object to the war, but that doesn't change the fact that Hanoi won through the efforts of the US peace process.

Your declarations of specious logic and sophistry doesn't make it so. I never offered suggestions, I offered examples. That you would call it "plausible but not true" is an EXAMPLE of your unwillingness to accept the facts of the matter. But people have done the same when faced with evidence of the 9-11 attacks and the fact that yes we did actually go to the moon.

What is ironic is people who reject the truth of these matters have no problem believing completely untrue ideas such as the US engineered the AIDS virus and various nonsense concerning 9-11.

[500grains]

REMINDER: Only a small percentage of Muslims are violent. Or intolerant. Or want to live in a theocracy.

An Afghan aid worker is facing execution within three days for converting to Christianity.

Said Musa, 45, was told by a judge that he would be hanged within days unless he reconverts to Islam.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/af...in-days-48897/

[Iraqgunz]

As one who has spent a good 4 years in the Middle East I have to disagree. If you look at how many people are Muslim and if only 1% of them hate us, that is a shitload of enemies.

As SteyrAug points out. Islam is not compatible with western society and the spread of Islam wasn't done by using nice words and flowers.

Sounds vaguely familiar to the arguments made against J.F.K.'s Catholicism fifty years ago.

And now we have six Roman Catholic justices serving on the Supreme Court (and two Jewish justices) with the sole Protestant justice nearing retirement.

Frankly, religious fundamentalism, regardless of sect, is incompatible with the U.S. Constitution. Fortunately, most folks who adhere to one faith or the other are not zealots and when the tenets of their faith run headlong into making a buck and getting ahead in this world, religion takes the backseat.

[Belmont31R]

As one who has spent a good 4 years in the Middle East I have to disagree. If you look at how many people are Muslim and if only 1% of them hate us, that is a shitload of enemies.

As SteyrAug points out. Islam is not compatible with western society and the spread of Islam wasn't done by using nice words and flowers.

Remember after 9/11 there were a lot of people out in the streets in ME countries celebrating.


In KSA they have religious police that enforce prayer time. Not so much on westerners (my dad has worked there 5 years in the last 15 years) and the local entertainment seems to be the weekly public punishments like beheadings, hands cut off, ect. There is no way for Islam to coexist in the west unless someone is just a muslim in name or grew up here and is westernized. For true muslims they have to have a totalitarian state and islamic law has to be the law of the land.