Why is the terror threat level so high?

[QuietShootr]

You really don't know anything about anything do you?

What government do you think invited Jane Fonda to engage in anti war propaganda for them? Did you know Jane Fonda returned to Vietnam in 1975 to celebrate their victory?

More on Jane as an active agent for Hanoi in the US anti war movement here:

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

The group Vietnam Veterans Against The War was actual a front for the Vietnamese government in Hanoi designed to foster opposition to the war in the US.

http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticp...p?page=puppets

"July 17, 1971 -- Following a month-long speaking tour of the Soviet
Union and other countries, six VVAW and CCI members meet with PRG
representatives in Paris to show support for the communist peace plan.

July 20, 1971 -- Leaders of the VVAW hold a staff meeting. They agree to use the designations favored by North Vietnam (Democratic Republic of Vietnam) and the Vietcong (Provisional Revolutionary Government) for future press releases, decide to remove all American flags from VVAW offices, and discuss how best to handle Al Hubbard's planned trip to Hanoi.

July 24, 1971 -- The Daily World features a photograph of John Kerry
speaking in support of the Provisional Revolutionary Government
(Vietcong) Seven Point Plan. (At the time, John Kerry was still in the United States Navy.)

August, 1971 -- The FBI opens a full investigation of the VVAW
to "determine the extent of control over VVAW by subversive groups
and/or violence-prone elements in the antiwar movement," noting
that "sources had provided information that VVAW was stockpiling
weapons, VVAW had been in contact with North Vietnam officials in
Paris, France, VVAW was receiving funds from former CPUSA members and
VVAW was aiding and financing U.S. military deserters. Additionally,
information had been received that some individual chapters
throughout the country had been infiltrated by the youth groups of
the CPUSA and the SWP [Socialist Workers Party]." Source: FBI
Memorandum to Senate Select Committee, 12/2/75, pp. 2-3; Hearings,
Vol. 6, Exhibit 72.


August, 1971 -- VVAW Executive Committee member Joe Urgo travels with
other antiwar leaders to North Vietnam, where he meets with Prime
Minister Pham Van Dong and others. According to FBI records, (see PDF
file) Urgo makes the following proposals to the communist leaders: 1)
that the VVAW make tapes to be broadcast over Radio Hanoi to get U.S.
troops to stop fighting, and 2) to send a VVAW delegation to Hanoi in
the near future.

August, 1971 -- Kerry travels to Paris to meet with the North
Vietnamese delegation to the Paris Peace Talks. Source: FBI HQ 100-
448092 Section 5, 216-231 (esp. 230).

Late August, 1971 -- Kerry and Hubbard meet with leftist millionaires
in East Hampton to promote the VVAW and show film clips of atrocity
claims from the Winter Soldier Investigation. According to the New
York Times, a request for funds had the attendees "scrambling for
pens and checkbooks."

Early November, 1971 -- According to FBI records, (see PDF file) Al
Hubbard meets with the North Vietnamese and Vietcong delegations in
Paris. Hubbard's trip comes in response to an invitation to "VVAW,
Communist Party (CP) USA, and left wing group in Paris, name
unrecalled," and is financed by the Communist Party USA.

November 7, 1971 -- John Kerry tells the Sunday Oklahoman that the
political power structure within the United States can and must
change if the nation is to avoid violent efforts to seize power,
saying, "If it (the government) doesn't change we are asking for
trouble. If it is not done, those who are talking about seizing it
will have every right to go after it." [see page 251 of Section 10 of
the VVAW FBI files]

November 12 - 15, 1971 -- the VVAW leadership meets in Kansas City.
Fearing surveillance by authorities, the group relocates the meeting
to another building. They debate, then vote down a plan to
assassinate several pro-war U.S. Senators. Despite John Kerry's claim
to have left the VVAW before this event, several witnesses, meeting
minutes and FBI records eventually place Kerry at the Kansas City
meeting."

Lots more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~american_families/id45.html

I think if you're arguing with someone who doesn't think the Vietnam-era antiwar movement was controlled by Moscow and Hanoi, you're really wasting your breath trying to tell them that Muslims might be a threat as a group.

[Redmanfms]

Indonesia, the fourth most populous country in the world, doesn't count?

Turkey, member of NATO and the G-20, with a population of 75 million doesn't appear on the radar?

These two countries alone, both secular democratic constitutional republics, represent almost a third of the world muslim population. Have they both had problems with Islamic fundamentalists? Sure. Have these minority movements brought down the government? No.

While Iraq (and Iran under the Shah) might have projected a secular appearance to the world, they were both totalitarian regimes run be dictators who, for better or for worse, assumed and retained their positions of power through the influence of external governments motivated by political and economic factors. First and foremost amongst those external governments was the good ol' U.S. of A. And it was the atmosphere of repression under Saddam Hussein and the Shah that created the conditions which allowed the Islamic fundamentalists to rise to power.

I guess we live in a vacuum in which what is happening RIGHT NOW in Europe doesn't exist.

BTW, Indonesia and Turkey aren't the best examples, because both are trending toward Islamism. Persecution of non-Muslim groups is also common in both nations.

Hopefully, we are witnessing the birth of another democratic constitutional republic in Egypt. There are precedents in the world.

Like we witnessed in Iran in 1979? Iran is still a vastly more Western nation than Egypt is, and it was even more so in the 1970s. What happened? Appeals to faith are powerful and hard to ignore, and Khomeini was a popular figure even among secularists foolish enough to believe they would be getting a constitutional Republic if they shut up and backed him in the referendum.





Moderate Islam is a myth. Moderate Muslims are like Christmas and Easter Christians, they tend to know very little about their faith. The people who can quote copiously from the Koran and the commentaries, actually speak Arabic (and therefore have some understanding of what they are reciting at prayer time), and are educated are the radicals. This isn't a poverty or education issue, this is an ideology issue, much like Communism.

As Muslim immigrants to Europe have gained the wealth to have the leisure and education to truly learn about their faith, they have become radicalized.



Further, and I'm not attempting to make this personal, most of the "useful idiots" in the West who make excuses for Islam know absolutely nothing about it. They've never bothered to read the Koran, or the vastly more important (in terms of day-to-day Islamic life) hadith and other commentaries. The writings of al-Bukhari are particularly illustrative to the Westerner about how much trust a non-Muslim should have in a Muslim.

[SteyrAUG]

I think if you're arguing with someone who doesn't think the Vietnam-era antiwar movement was controlled by Moscow and Hanoi, you're really wasting your breath trying to tell them that Muslims might be a threat as a group.

Probably right. But as usual my first instinct is to assume they simply just don't know and to bring them up to speed. I keep forgetting that there are people like this who have seen the evidence and concluded:

Bush cause 9-11
We didn't go to the moon.
VVAW wasn't an enemy sponsored group.

They get me every time and I continue to be amazed. On the upside, when I was young I was also prone to willingly believe a LOT of nonsense I later found out was completely untrue. Sadly it's a lot easier to get values and beliefs from movies and other mainstream influences, finding out the actual facts of a given circumstance takes effort and research.

[Spiffums]

Because the Patriot act is back up for voting.
No other reason.



Because not all Muslims are terrorists. In fact the vast majority are not.

How many times to see them take to the street to decry the latest act of terrorism? Just let a white guy blow something up and there are 15 people on tv saying how he doesn't speak for us/ hold the same values as us.

The Muslims don't do this........... what it the old saying Silence = Guilt?

[Magic_Salad0892]

Israel actually has domestic acts of terrorism, but they don't have a terror alert level.

Why do we?

Let's adopt the Swiss gun laws, amend them so that no state can mess with them, and watch crime fall, and terrorists get scared.

Honest Abe was right, we'd pave the way for them to destroy us.

SteyrAUG. I'd appreciate a PM, if you wouldn't mind to tell me what the ''Bush caused 9/11'' guys said to you as evidence to support their claim.

[Iraqgunz]

I wonder if this is why? To think our government would tell us in naive.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-officer.html

[variablebinary]

I know, not think, that there are credible threats against the USA on our own soil daily.

However, there are two greater concerns:

1. How do we proactively deal with those threats without become a police state?

2. How do we deal with a successful attack without becoming a police state?

We can survive any terrorist attack, but we can't survive the destruction of the Constitution, which is what we are seeing every day.

[Magic_Salad0892]

First off... any good reasons as to why we shouldn't know?

Second.. they chose California. Where most people don't have firearms to defend themselves.

Third. That dude looks like Chris Penn.

[SteyrAUG]

SteyrAUG. I'd appreciate a PM, if you wouldn't mind to tell me what the ''Bush caused 9/11'' guys said to you as evidence to support their claim.

It's the usual silly shit, like Bush talking about seeing the "first impact" on television that day. The point being the footage of the first impact wasn't available until days later but that doesn't stop truthers from insisting Bush let the cat out of the bag and did see footage of the first impact due to it all being a carefully coordinated plot by the Bush administration.

[SteyrAUG]

I know, not think, that there are credible threats against the USA on our own soil daily.

However, there are two greater concerns:

1. How do we proactively deal with those threats without become a police state?

2. How do we deal with a successful attack without becoming a police state?

We can survive any terrorist attack, but we can't survive the destruction of the Constitution, which is what we are seeing every day.

Well for starters we can stop taking guys with known ties to radical Imams and stop promoting them to Major and putting them in charge of the psychological well being of US soldiers as a PC move.