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Thread: Piston Rifles?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    An XCR is not a LWRC upper and has little in common with it.

    The only info applicable to the LWRC product is info on the LWRC product.
    I had a brain fart, my bad. At least Robinson is honest.

  2. #22
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    Night Fighter, I would look at this link of the comparison chart that Rob_S made. There's a lot of good information and discussion there on various DI AR's there. If it were my money and I wanted to get started I would go with a LMT bought as a a upper and lower separately. I'm sure C4i Grant could set you up with that as well. That would provide a good general purpose AR and you could of course add anything you felt you needed to it. If you have a spare $200-300 then you could step up to a Colt 6920and be good as well. If you are dead set on spending $2000 you could go for a complete Noveske which would potentially yield better accuracy. Starting out though a LMT or a Colt aren't anything to sneeze at though and have a long and proven history with military/LE contracts.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFighter View Post
    Yeah, I think I am going to get a good quality DI AR and go from there.
    Despite my sometimes prickly nature, I really enjoy watching someone discover something for themselves. I'm an "act and see what happens" guy, so I tend to be intolerant of "paralysis by analysis".

    Having said that, I cannot imagine how much money I would've saved by being more circumspect; whether buying a car, or a house, or the long chain of ARs I've owned over the years.

    Sounds like you have your head on straight. I am willing to bet you will have more success, right away, than I did when I started doing ARs.

  4. #24
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    Entry ARs

    Quote Originally Posted by MerQ View Post
    Night Fighter, I would look at this link of the comparison chart that Rob_S made. There's a lot of good information and discussion there on various DI AR's there. If it were my money and I wanted to get started I would go with a LMT bought as a a upper and lower separately. I'm sure C4i Grant could set you up with that as well. That would provide a good general purpose AR and you could of course add anything you felt you needed to it. If you have a spare $200-300 then you could step up to a Colt 6920and be good as well. If you are dead set on spending $2000 you could go for a complete Noveske which would potentially yield better accuracy. Starting out though a LMT or a Colt aren't anything to sneeze at though and have a long and proven history with military/LE contracts.

    https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
    MerQ,
    I have read the comparison chart. My problem, that I am trying to solve, is that I dont know how what some of the terms mean and how important some of the items are to the rifle. Ex: shot peened bolt, "H" buffer and taper pin at FSB. What makes Colt a step up from LMT? Another issue is which of the ARs are entry level, mid level and upper levels. I dont want an AR that I am going to have to spend more time 'tinkering' with than shooting. I want an AR that is going to work right out the box and only get better as I get better. I have read about the Noveske and think they are more than I need at this time. Plus from what I have read and heard once I get started down this dark road or ARs I will end up wanting and getting more ARs.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 120mm View Post
    Despite my sometimes prickly nature, I really enjoy watching someone discover something for themselves. I'm an "act and see what happens" guy, so I tend to be intolerant of "paralysis by analysis".

    Having said that, I cannot imagine how much money I would've saved by being more circumspect; whether buying a car, or a house, or the long chain of ARs I've owned over the years.

    Sounds like you have your head on straight. I am willing to bet you will have more success, right away, than I did when I started doing ARs.
    Thanks for the helping hand and the little push to get moving. At this moment I am set on an LMT rifle. I just have to save a few more pennies before I can buy the rifle. I figure the worst that can happen is that I have an AR that I can use to learn how to shoot with an work on and get a first hand understand of ARs. Knowledge is power.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFighter View Post
    MerQ,
    I have read the comparison chart. My problem, that I am trying to solve, is that I dont know how what some of the terms mean and how important some of the items are to the rifle. Ex: shot peened bolt, "H" buffer and taper pin at FSB. What makes Colt a step up from LMT? Another issue is which of the ARs are entry level, mid level and upper levels. I dont want an AR that I am going to have to spend more time 'tinkering' with than shooting. I want an AR that is going to work right out the box and only get better as I get better. I have read about the Noveske and think they are more than I need at this time. Plus from what I have read and heard once I get started down this dark road or ARs I will end up wanting and getting more ARs.
    Shot peened bolt = the bolt has been shot peened (shot with tiny BBs) which strengthens the metal (just like connecting rods on engines, especially in hot rod engines making lots of power).

    H buffer = a 3.8oz carbine buffer (CAR buffers are 2.9oz), H buffers slow down the high cyclic rate of the M4 and help with extraction problems and improve the felt recoil.

    Taper pins = are tapered pins (original design) that hold the front sight base onto the barrel (the pins pass through FSB and barrel material), LMT, RRA, ArmaLite and some others use straight pins, some believe that taper pins are better than straight pins but no scientific proof has been shown why one is better than the other.

    It's splitting hairs trying to see the differences in quality between a Colt and LMT. A Colt has a little better 'collector value and resale value' and a little higher cool factor since it's the primary carbine used by the US military. The LMT can be had a little easier and for a little less money and IMHO is of equal quality. Both the Colt or LMT will run well. KAC, Sabre Defence and Noveske are also great rifles. I hear great things about ADS and Defensive Edge rifles, but I have no 1st hand experience with either.

    Rifles that you may have to tinker with to keep running if you're running the rifle hard would be Bushmaster, RRA, S&W, STAG, Oly, ArmaLite, DPMS.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

  7. #27
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    Thanks to this forum my next gun purchase will be a colt 6920 or a LMT equivalent.


    Maybe after all the Christmas season overtime...

  8. #28
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    Key benefits of piston operated ARs include:

    -Increased reliability in short barreled carbines
    -Greatly reduced heat transfer to key operating components leading to increased component life and reduced maintenance costs. This contributes to increased reliability by reducing the potential for catastrophic parts failure caused by continued heat stress
    -Reduced/eliminated lube "consumption" from searing hot gases blown into operating area.
    -greatly reduced cleaning/maintenance
    -elimination of "powder eye" caused by gas leakage around charging handle (Slight increase when shooting suppressed, but still much, much better than suppressed DI gun)

    I have two LWRC Carbines and I have never been as impressed with a weapon system. I've got one of the LWRC 8" PSDs on order as well. Admittedly, they don't make a lot of sense if you've already got a carbine with a mid-length gas system, but you'll be amazed at the difference between a carbine length DI gun and a piston carbine.

    Stephen

    I met the shooter that had issues with his LWRC Carbine at a recent Pat Goodale Carbine course and he explained the problem to me in detail. He had an early group buy gun that used a standard roll pin to hold the fixed piston nozzle in place. It broke early on in the course and as the nozzle got looser and looser he started experiencing malfunctions culminating in a down gun. This is an issue that LWRC had diagnosed and they now use a solid pin that is hydraulically pressed into place. The shooter ran the same gun, repaired of course, in the class we had together without any mechanical issues.

    Of the 14 students at that Pat Goodale class, 12 were using LWRC Carbines and the only issues experienced were ammo related. When using Wolf ammo, the primer sealant can build up in the firing pin channel and cause light or no primer strikes. Two of their guns had to be cleaned during the lunch break to get all the build up removed. There were no parts breakage or gun attributed malfunctions during the class. I had some mild suppressor issues as well because I wasn't using the factory supplied H2 buffer.


    Just FYI

    Stephen
    Last edited by KevinB; 09-12-07 at 13:22.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gotm4 View Post
    It's splitting hairs trying to see the differences in quality between a Colt and LMT. A Colt has a little better 'collector value and resale value' and a little higher cool factor since it's the primary carbine used by the US military. The LMT can be had a little easier and for a little less money and IMHO is of equal quality. Both the Colt or LMT will run well. KAC, Sabre Defence and Noveske are also great rifles. I hear great things about ADS and Defensive Edge rifles, but I have no 1st hand experience with either.

    Rifles that you may have to tinker with to keep running if you're running the rifle hard would be Bushmaster, RRA, S&W, STAG, Oly, ArmaLite, DPMS.
    At this point in time from what I have read and heard the LMT is the rifle for a person of my level of experience. I have looked at the ADS and did not know about the Defensive Edge rifles until you mentioned them in this post. I will have to take a look at them later. The KAC, Sabre Defence and Noveske are rifles I will look at when I know which end is the safe end and which end is the dangerous end of an AR I do want to thank you for answering my questions about the comparison chart. Help when someone just points me in the right direction.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Lord View Post
    Thanks to this forum my next gun purchase will be a colt 6920 or a LMT equivalent.

    Maybe after all the Christmas season overtime...
    What rifle(s) would be considered LMT equivalents? Now I will have more questions for the forum

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