Optics recommendation

[TXBob]

I know these thread always bring a certain "not this crap again" but I've tried to do some background to save everyone some time.

I have a Remington 700 PSS in 308.

I would like to set it up for long range precision shooting.

Most ranges around here are limited to 200 yards, with a few that can go to 500-600. (I know not really long range shooting, but I'm trying to deal with reality here).

Most shooting will thus be inside 200 yards. I know the rule of thumb is scope=rifle for cost, thus my budget is $1000 or less.

What I need is models to avoid, models to consider.

I'd like to do mil-dot reticule, not a fan of BDC but I have limited experience with either. My perspective is that the BDC is "fixed" and if I find it highly likely that different loads will not follow the BDC--thus it is better to go Mil-dot. I am open to correction.

Also is there any consideration to the type of mounting? Certain rings/mounting height?

With my limited range I was thinking 10X max mag or less, possibly a variable scope. I'd like it to be rugged, as I am of the opinion that even though most shooting is at the range, a trip to the wilderness won't make it go bottom up. I know some of the big names like Leupold, but not many others that seem to come up here.

[MistWolf]

The BDC is nothing more than an elevation turret with marks to match a certain bullet trajectory. These marks are nothing more than a suggestion, a rapid reference. When I bought a Leupold sniper scope so many years ago, I wish I had understood this concept more clearly and would have gotten the model with a BDC elevation turret instead of the conventional turret

[darr3239]

Here is a great write-up in my opinion. They liked the Zeiss. Still, if you aren't going to shoot over 200 yards, then anything will probably do. Even a non-variable 4 power scope.

http://www.americanhunter.org/Webcon...1-retilces.pdf

[shootist~]

Snipers Hide will have more posts on precision optics than you will ever want to read. There are a few mid priced scopes that are reported to work within your budget.

Their custom search engine:
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=01...x5qqy10o&hl=en

[glock24]

I'm certainly not an expert, but I have been studying long-range precision shooting for a few years now. I just finished up my first class with Vern Harrison of Central Virginia Tactical last Fall.

I would say you are certainly on the right track thus far. The Remington 700 in 308 Winchester is a great start. I have one myself.

As for the scope, you are also on the right track in first considering the type of ballistic system you want to study. What I have learned through my experience is that you really have five options;

1. A mil-scale reticle with BDC adjustments
2. A mil-scale reticle with MOA adjustments
3. A mil-scale reticle with MRAD adjustments
4. An MOA reticle with MOA adjustments
5. A BDC reticle with any one of the above adjustments.

I decided on option #3. I learned that mil-scale type reticles (Mil-Dot for example) are the most plentiful and universal. I also decided on MRAD adjustments because I learned they are essentially the same units of measure as a mil-scale reticle. In this way, the reticle and adjustment system can "communicate" more effectively than with a mis-matched system like option #2.

I also agree with you that a universal measurement system like the mil-scale reticle is much more flexible than a BDC type system.

I happen to have a bit of a instructional presentation on the mil-scale system that I put together for a friend of mine. If you PM me your e-mail, I'd be happy to send you a copy. If nothing else, it will certainly spark some new, yet specific questions for you.

Regardless, the scopes I would recommend in your price range include;

1. Vortex PST
2. Leupold Mark 4
3. Bushnell Elite Tactical
4. Weaver Tactical
5. Super Sniper


I would also advise that you stay away from the temptation to buy the less expensive Millet and Falcon tactical scopes. Although they look good on paper, they are hit-and-miss quality wise.

Good luck. It is an exciting journey!

[carbinero]

Yes, mounting. The cheapest I've found that I would trust are steel Weaver bases with Warne rings. That would be $50 total. However with a $1,000 budget, maybe a nice rail like Seekins or at least check out the various ones under $100 that EGW offers. For rings I like Warne, but Seekins again should be looked at. So now that would be $200 for mounting and $800 for glass. If you want to spend more on mounting, there's Badger.

I do not have sweet glass like $800 worth, but have looked through my buddy's Vortex and seen it perform in the field, and will second the Viper PST recommendation.

[austinN4]

Snipers Hide will have more posts on precision optics than you will ever want to read.

I second this. Another good place to learn about precision optics in various price ranges:
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php

[carbinero]

Yet another:

http://www.opticstalk.com/topic22786...67.html#299767

FYI, opticstalk is hosted by SWFA.

[Belmont31R]

Im not a fan, generally, of BDC reticles because its set in stone, and you have to have the exact setup/combo the BDC is calibrated to for accuracy. The ACOG BDC's generally work well because they are only made for 2 guns and 1 type of ammo in a military application where theres going to be little variation from that spec.



BDC turrets don't matter much to me, either, because like the reticle they demand you have the exact setup they are calibrated for.


Even if you have the exact setup they don't take into account weather conditions, elevation, ect.


Its far more flexible to just have a general reticle and turrets...either mil or moa. Whichever one you prefer. Ive found mils to be easier to use.


For me I just spend the range time shooting various distances, and writing down what does what. For instance shooting MK262 ammo out of an 18" barrel at 500 yards means 2.8 mils (28 clicks). The reticle has mil graduations. Im not tied to a particular setup, ammo, weather conditions, ect. If I wanted to do hold overs instead of dialing the turret I simply set the turret to zero, and I could hold 2.8 mils high at 500.

Also with a standard reticle I can spot shots, and say 'that was 1 mil left and .5 mils high'. I make that adjustment on the turret or change my hold over to compensate. If you have a BDC reticle theres no easy way to do that since you probably won't know how far exactly the graduations are apart.

[NUTT]

When I put together my precision rifle a year ago I went with the SWFA SS 10x, rear focus. It is a $300 scope and it wasn't a bad way to go. I am able to make center mass hits on steel at 800 yds in varied wind conditions. I haven't had a chance to shoot at 1,000 yet but have the elevation to do it.

I'd suggest a good base & rings to start with. Figure $300 for the set (I went with Badger). If you want to go lower end, look at the Burris XTR bases & rings.

That said, I've done some shooting and taken a class and I'm ready to upgrade now my scope now. I'm leaning heavily towards the Nightforce F1 with the new MLR2 reticle. The price on that one is a little over double your budget.

One thing I've noticed over the last year is that I really like First Focal Plane Scopes, milled reticles (Leupold TMR, the new Nightforce MLR2) and .1 mil adjustments. I've learned this through shooting, looking through others scopes & a little bit of reading online.

The way I see it, you have a couple options.

1 - Buy low end, shoot now, upgrade later. SWFA SS fixed 10.

2 - Buy mid range, shoot now, upgrade later. Vortex PSS, used Leupold Mark 4.

3 - Save money, go big, shoot later. Nightforce, US Optics, Schmidt & Bender, Hensoldt.