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Thread: Broken BAD Lever and Resulting Problems

  1. #21
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    I never knew that people had such an unfavorable view of the BAD lever, and I've been looking all over this site for a couple years now.

    2-way range - That was just my point when posting this. Have the tools needed to fix these things. Had that happened with someone shooting back, it could have gone very bad. I've been involved in one shooting and one very near shooting. With the absolute breakdown of thinking anything through, who knows what would have happened.

    I don't know. Like I said, I run through drills with and without the BAD Lever since I don't want using the bolt lock alone to become as foreign as using the BAD Lever once was. The likelihood of being in another shooting is very slim itself, but having this kind of failure on top of it is probably 1:1,000,000.

    I guess I need to think it over and see where it takes me. I'm interested to hear some more opinions on this as well. Thanks to everyone that's posted so far.

    Jonathan

  2. #22
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    .

    I like the BAD and I use it all of the time trying to find out the disadvantages, problems, weakneses, etc.

    To me the most "acceptable" weakspot on AR's, are Folding Sights.
    Jon, broke his BAD but his gun still partially functioned. If he would have landed on his folding sight, his rifle would have been pretty useless.
    I bet the next time Jon's gun fails, he'll check his BAD and after reading all of this, I will too.

    I think each person has to:
    - make sure the BAD works reliably on their gun. (My only problem has been with 20-round mags not holding bolt open after last shot.)

    - determine if the advantages out-weight the disadvantages.
    >>>>>Advantages: Clear malfuntions faster, Release bolt faster, ?
    >>>>>Disadvantages: Breaks if you land on top of it, Can't use 20-round mags, "Seems" to be problematic in Middies, ?

    - prepare for the worst. (Carry tools to remove, carry a spare, etc.)


    To me, to have a BAD mechanism built internally would be ideal and I reckon some Lower Maker is spending some R&D money to come up with something but until then, for me, a BAD will have to do...until it proves unreliable.

    But maybe it's just me...

    .

  3. #23
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    I have the hex key stashed in my MIAD or VLTOR stock. Would not want to shotgun my gun and unscrew the BAD during a firefight, though.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucrt View Post
    =============================

    EB,
    What hold the EBR to the Bolt Catch? It looks like it is glued or epoxied.

    Thanks

    .
    It is the bolt catch. All one piece I believe. So just remove the original bolt release and put this one in place.

  5. #25
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    I use the BAD lever on almost all of my carbines, and I keep a spare wrench in the handgrip or glued to the inside of the handguard on all of those weapons just in case.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I never knew that people had such an unfavorable view of the BAD lever, and I've been looking all over this site for a couple years now.

    2-way range - That was just my point when posting this. Have the tools needed to fix these things. Had that happened with someone shooting back, it could have gone very bad. I've been involved in one shooting and one very near shooting. With the absolute breakdown of thinking anything through, who knows what would have happened.

    I don't know. Like I said, I run through drills with and without the BAD Lever since I don't want using the bolt lock alone to become as foreign as using the BAD Lever once was. The likelihood of being in another shooting is very slim itself, but having this kind of failure on top of it is probably 1:1,000,000.

    I guess I need to think it over and see where it takes me. I'm interested to hear some more opinions on this as well. Thanks to everyone that's posted so far.

    Jonathan
    Eliminate the BAD lever and you eliminate the need to carry the tools required to fix one that ends up broken during a firefight. You also eliminate the other potential issues that the BAD lever may cause. My specific issue was that the BAD was causing the bolt to lock to the rear on its own intermittently while firing on one of my AR's. It also intermittently would not lock back on an empty mag on both of my BAD equipped AR's.

    After removing the BAD levers from my AR's, it took me a bit of time to re-train myself to drop the bolt with the bolt catch paddle during reloads as I was already used to dropping it with my trigger finger on the BAD lever. If you were to come across a situation where you needed to speed reload someone else's AR that was not equipped with a BAD lever, you may end up fumbling the bolt release under stress if you are used to having the BAD lever.

    In the end, I *personally don't feel the ability to conduct a remedial action drill without un-shouldering the rifle, and a negligible gain in speed during reloads, over pressing the bolt catch paddle are worth the potential liability caused by adding a non-standard part to the equation that may cause other reliability and training issues is worth it. *YMMV

  7. #27
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    Eliminate the RDS and you eliminate the need to carry spare batteries.

    Eliminate the sling and you eliminate the possibility of being choked or dragged to the ground with it.

    Eliminate the light and you eliminate the possibility of giving away your position or presence with an light ND.

    See how this works? Everything we choose has pros and cons. It is up to the individual user to evaluate those pros and cons and decide if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Pretty simple stuff.

    On the original topic, it would appear that the Phase V welded version might not have the same binding potential as the BAD. I may rethink trying one now. FWIW, the epoxy on the Phase V is just an aesthetic thing to recreate their logo. I wish they'd omit it, frankly, as it seems to cause a lot of confusion. In fact, I'd like to see a cleaner aesthetic to their product line as a whole as it appears that some of their choices add sharp edges and bulk for no reason other than making a statement. Cleaner lines and simpler designs would be better IMHO.

  8. #28
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    Also, I think there's a pretty widespread misconception and misunderstanding about these types of products, and that is as it relates to the reloads. Many of the detractors like to default to statements such as "fine for the gun games and the range chickens but I operate in the real world where this just won't work", or words to that effect.

    One small issue here. "Gun games" typically means 3-gun, probably the fastest-growing gun game out there right now, and borne out of IPSC/USPSA rules. That last part is important, because it means that even the outlaw matches are not a place where anyone truly competitive is letting their gun run dry. Either you run with a mondo-size magazine so that you can avoid reloads altogether or you reload when you can between positions with a round still in the chamber. In either case, the emergency reload speed benefit of the BAD-style lever device is totally negated. Some competitors may still find the lever useful for "unload and show clear", but some of the integrated lowers on the horizon are offering that functionality without the negatives of the lever.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Eliminate the RDS and you eliminate the need to carry spare batteries.

    Eliminate the sling and you eliminate the possibility of being choked or dragged to the ground with it.

    Eliminate the light and you eliminate the possibility of giving away your position or presence with an light ND.
    A little "apples to oranges" don't ya think?

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    See how this works? Everything we choose has pros and cons. It is up to the individual user to evaluate those pros and cons and decide if the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Pretty simple stuff.
    Yep, Yep, Yep & Yep. I explained above why I personally chose not to run a BAD anymore.
    Last edited by nickdrak; 02-23-11 at 13:47.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickdrak View Post
    A little "apples to oranges" don't ya think?
    No, or I wouldn't have posted it.

    there are people out there with the concerns I posted about all of those devices. Their opinions are only a strong resume, or a flashy video series (or both), away from being mainstream. I don't share them, but there are those that do.

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