Ak or FAL?

[Low Drag]

Given the vids above you can see the FAL & AR carbines will shoot fast, so close work is just as good as an AK. Actually I think the AK jumps around a bit more due to the design.

We all know the typical AK comes up short in longer range capability when compared to the typical AR or FAL.

So if you want an all round gun the AK is not for you. If you're happy with a gun that's a 100 yard-er then go with the AK or a shotgun for that matter.

[Jay Cunningham]

A wise man once said, "It's the singer, not the song."

Both rifles will do what is required of them if the shooter does their part. As to which is preferable, mission requirements dictate whether an intermediate cartridge or full size cartridge is preferable, and also the logistics of getting one's hands on enough/correct ammo.

[oldcrusty72]

Nice Vids Cameron,

[Nathan_Bell]

Too bad you couldn't get a Galil in .308 .

You can, but you will PAY


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=81589424

[TOrrock]

A wise man once said, "It's the singer, not the song."

Both rifles will do what is required of them if the shooter does their part. As to which is preferable, mission requirements dictate whether an intermediate cartridge or full size cartridge is preferable, and also the logistics of getting one's hands on enough/correct ammo.

Exactly.

The answer is, of course, both. If I had to get one before the other, probably the FAL, but that's a tough call. A quality AK will suprise you as far as accuracy, but if you're only experiences have been with shot to shit and beat to shit AK's in the sandbox (and the operators thereof), then I can understand someone's dismissal of the system.

[Canonshooter]

A quality AK will suprise you as far as accuracy, but if you're only experiences have been with shot to shit and beat to shit AK's in the sandbox (and the operators thereof), then I can understand someone's dismissal of the system.

Exactly! And in that regard, I came from the same set of beliefs before owning the Krebs rifle - I too considered the AK as "inferior" in every way.

Having owned ARs, a M1A, a HK91 and now a quality AK, I in no way feel "undergunned" in terms of accuracy with the AK within the limitations of its intended purpose. I consider the AK a short-to-medium range weapon, where the M1A and HK91 had better reach by virture of the cartridge they fire.

After having dabbled in high power rifle with the M1A years ago, I can say without reservation that for any kind of unsupported shooting (off hand, kneeling and prone) out to 100-150 yards on an IDPA target, I'm just as accurate with my Aimpoint-equipped AK - but quite a bit faster. Just like I practice defensive shooting with my Glock 17, I do the same with the AK as that is its intended role - something I have come to realize it can do extraordinarily well.

[Low Drag]

Exactly! And in that regard, I came from the same set of beliefs before owning the Krebs rifle - I too considered the AK as "inferior" in every way.

Having owned ARs, a M1A, a HK91 and now a quality AK, I in no way feel "undergunned" in terms of accuracy with the AK within the limitations of its intended purpose. I consider the AK a short-to-medium range weapon, where the M1A and HK91 had better reach by virture of the cartridge they fire.

After having dabbled in high power rifle with the M1A years ago, I can say without reservation that for any kind of unsupported shooting (off hand, kneeling and prone) out to 100-150 yards on an IDPA target, I'm just as accurate with my Aimpoint-equipped AK - but quite a bit faster. Just like I practice defensive shooting with my Glock 17, I do the same with the AK as that is its intended role - something I have come to realize it can do extraordinarily well.

What group sizes have you been able to get with the AK at 200 or more yards?

[edwin907]

As far as accuracy out to 200 yards, I don't see a lot of difference between my Arsenal A1R shooting Golden Tiger or Iraqi surplus and my 1/7 14.5" LMT AR shooting Winchester/LC M855 62gr.
Now I'm no accomplished sniper, and my vision isn't what it used to be.
The AK with a PKA sight, the LMT with a M3 Aimpoint, a valid comparison, and both are combat weapons.
Chest hits on silhouette targets are no problem with either from a prone firing position. The AR may seem to group a little tighter, but not a lot. Add magnified optics and the difference would be more apparent I'm sure.

But to describe the AK as a 100 yard gun insults it's capabilities, and the comparison to a shotgun is laughable.

[Low Drag]

As far as accuracy out to 200 yards, I don't see a lot of difference between my Arsenal A1R shooting Golden Tiger or Iraqi surplus and my 1/7 14.5" LMT AR shooting Winchester/LC M855 62gr.
Now I'm no accomplished sniper, and my vision isn't what it used to be.
The AK with a PKA sight, the LMT with a M3 Aimpoint, a valid comparison, and both are combat weapons.
Chest hits on silhouette targets are no problem with either from a prone firing position. The AR may seem to group a little tighter, but not a lot. Add magnified optics and the difference would be more apparent I'm sure.

But to describe the AK as a 100 yard gun insults it's capabilities, and the comparison to a shotgun is laughable.

So open sights at 200 yards and you're getting about 4" - 6" or so groups?

[TOrrock]

So open sights at 200 yards and you're getting about 4" - 6" or so groups?

Alot of that is caliber and cartridge dependent.

Comparing an AR shooting Winchester, Federal, Black Hills, etc. to an AK shooting Russian or Chinese FMJ military ammo isn't really fair. Yugoslav FMJ tends to be more accurate, and the US commercial 7.62x39mm is usually even better.

The small bore Kalashnikovs tend to be more accurate, the 5.45mm is more accurate than the 7.62x39mm, and the 5.56x45mm, well, was designed from the ground up as a varmint cartridge vs. a military cartridge, so AK's chambered in 5.56mm can actually hang pretty well in practical, off hand accuracy with an AR similary set up.

I've been shooting AK's for a lot of years, and I actually do better with an AK sight set up over an apeture set up like the AR, ymmv.

I can consistently hit a 9"x12" steel silhouette off hand out to about 150 yards. Any more than that and I'd rather go prone.

The AK is generally a 200 yard weapon with irons, put a decent optic on that and you can extend that, caliber dependent. After 300 yards, the 123 gr. 7.62x39mm does start to drop significantly.