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Thread: Who is making the most accurate DMR Uppers?

  1. #31
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    For those of us with less experience in this realm, it would be helpful if those posting could vet themselves a bit. I am rather tired of listening to guys that bought a "SPR" for "CQB", shoots Wolf or SM193 in it, and have zero experience with other products tell me how great his gun is.

    To the OP re: your topic subject:
    It doesn't matter. You can't shoot as good as the difference between these guns. I read a lot of these types of threads, check group sizes, read comparison articles, etc. (none of which makes me an SME) and the common denominator is that they all shoot so close to one another with the right loads (shills removed) that you should be looking at other aspects like cost, weight, customer service, etc. In this way it is much like the silencer market where people understandably get side-tracked with dB ratings when that really isn't the factor that divides the major players.

    On the subject of accuracy guarantees:
    I think they're bullshit too. Just like, to reuse the example, stated dB ratings on cans. and they have to make an administrative nightmare for the manufacturer when some dimbulb buys the gun and is 1 micron off from the guarantee with his Super Sniper scope and handloads.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by venuto View Post
    Forget it.. It's not worth a debate.. a 18 inch wouldnt be set up for CQB..
    It's not worth a debate, or you don't have a response?

    Your posts in this thread have been less than productive and/or helpful and seem to expose a lack of experience and a penchant for trolling for a fight. If you have something to share, and some way of explaining the below comment, I think we'd all like to hear it.

    BCM doesn't state any accuracy claims is more due to the fact that the rifles are really not set up for accuracy as much as the are set up for CQB
    It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind with a particular brand, and you mistake the fact that BCM is well regarded among people that actually shoot because their products perform, and meet a known standard for some kind of barfcom "fanboyism" that doesn't exist here.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    It's not worth a debate, or you don't have a response?

    Your posts in this thread have been less than productive and/or helpful and seem to expose a lack of experience and a penchant for trolling for a fight. If you have something to share, and some way of explaining the below comment, I think we'd all like to hear it.



    It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind with a particular brand, and you mistake the fact that BCM is well regarded among people that actually shoot because their products perform, and meet a known standard for some kind of barfcom "fanboyism" that doesn't exist here.
    I don't have an ax to grind. My posts all revolved around the fact that other manufactures were accused of lieing about accuracy claims except BCM... and somehow this proved that BCM was honest..

    I don't own a BCM .. I own Knights Armament products. SR15s and SR15 SBRs. i am a firearms dealer and pistol and rifle instructor in South Florida. I have sold 40 AR platforms this past year so I think I have seen a fair share of weapons..

    Regarding the comment about BCM and 18 inch barrels.. I already did respond.. I said that isn't a CQB setup.

    More more thing... If you made something that was really good at something why wouldn't you talk about it.. Like accuracy.. If you put together a weapon that was very accurate wouldn't you want to market that? of course you would and this is done in every aspect of sales. You play up your strengths.. So I ask you, if a company doesn't talk about such an important thing as accuracy in their products couldn't you take from that that they don't have very good accuracy? of course all this could be incorrect but I think accuracy is an important thing when it comes to selling a rifle..
    Last edited by venuto; 02-23-11 at 14:06.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by venuto View Post
    I don't have an ax to grind. My posts all revolved around the fact that other manufactures were accused of lieing about accuracy claims except BCM... and somehow this proved that BCM was honest..

    I don't own a BCM .. I own Knights Armament products. SR15s and SR15 SBRs. i am a firearms dealer and pistol and rifle instructor in South Florida. I have sold 40 AR platforms this past year so I think I have seen a fair share of weapons..
    This is what you posted.
    Quote Originally Posted by venuto View Post
    Good grief. Talk about fanboyism. So everyone is lying except the mighty BCM. Give me a break.
    which used to have more, but you went back and doctored it. Interesting that you still didn't remove the personal attack but instead removed the part that might be offensive to the whole forum.

    Regarding the comment about BCM and 18 inch barrels.. I already did respond.. I said that isn't a CQB setup.
    which doesn't address your original statement. at all. Your original statement was that BCM wouldn't guarantee an accuracy standard (on their SPRs) because they couldn't meet the standard because they were more focused on CQB. Then you said that an 18" barrel wouldn't be used for CQB. That progression makes no sense in the context of this discussion.

    and, if you're a dealer you may want to read the rules
    5) Industry Disclosure – If you are an industry manufacturer/dealer or employed by one you must disclose this relationship through your screen name or signature line. Anonymous industry trolling will not be allowed.

  5. #35
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    Well this has been interesting?!? I think.....Well I spent a lot of time reading last night and talked to Noveske this morning and they answered all of these questions and more!!! I learned more in 20 min of them talking than probably reading for months...they will be getting my business!!! Placing the order next week......I really can't see how I could go wrong buying from them and dealing with a company that is so customer service minded.

    I can't wait to add it to my collection.

    FYI they feel the 16" vs 18" is splitting hairs most of the time, feel that the 16" will do what I need to, save a little weight and both will shoot sub moa in the right conditions etc etc.....all of you are right about these claims being in best case scenarios however it is like buying a 4x4 or a sports car that you know will do more than you ever will want it to...a quality rifle is the same. I am not up to the skill level that this rifle can deliver but I want to grow into the rifle and not be held back as I improve etc.

    David

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    This is what you posted.


    which used to have more, but you went back and doctored it. Interesting that you still didn't remove the personal attack but instead removed the part that might be offensive to the whole forum.



    which doesn't address your original statement. at all. Your original statement was that BCM wouldn't guarantee an accuracy standard (on their SPRs) because they couldn't meet the standard because they were more focused on CQB. Then you said that an 18" barrel wouldn't be used for CQB. That progression makes no sense in the context of this discussion.

    and, if you're a dealer you may want to read the rules
    Sorry about the rules thing.. .. I didn't mean any disrespect to the forum.

    I think my posts are pretty concise. it states what I feel and how I think about things. I addressed all your concernes/ issues already.

    I am not interested in fighting with you.. I am sorry you don't like me or what I write. Your messages are pretty clear in your intentions to discredit me and my viewpoint. That's OK.. I am a big boy of 52 years and know the rules of the internet and internet forums.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by venuto View Post
    I am not interested in fighting with you.. I am sorry you don't like me or what I write. Your messages are pretty clear in your intentions to discredit me and my viewpoint. That's OK.. I am a big boy of 52 years and know the rules of the internet and internet forums.
    I am not trying to discredit you. At most I'm pointing out that you're doing a fine job of it all on your own. It is easy to simply dismiss things as "not wanting to fight about it", "It's not worth a debate", "I'm older than you" or "I know how the internet works". If you really knew all these things and they really were your intention you wouldn't have posted the things that you did. Unfortunately for you your past posts also betray your biases and unwillingness or inability to substantiate your posts and claims.

    I initially wasn't asking any more or less of you than I would any other poster here. State your frame of reference. State your background. State your experience with the product or the concept being discussed. These are not difficult concepts to grasp. But once you copped to being a dealer (ironically in an effort to win an argument you claim you don't wish to have) you exposed a perception of potential bias, and at that point many of us are going to expect more from you.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I am not trying to discredit you. At most I'm pointing out that you're doing a fine job of it all on your own. It is easy to simply dismiss things as "not wanting to fight about it", "It's not worth a debate", "I'm older than you" or "I know how the internet works". If you really knew all these things and they really were your intention you wouldn't have posted the things that you did. Unfortunately for you your past posts also betray your biases and unwillingness or inability to substantiate your posts and claims.

    I initially wasn't asking any more or less of you than I would any other poster here. State your frame of reference. State your background. State your experience with the product or the concept being discussed. These are not difficult concepts to grasp. But once you copped to being a dealer (ironically in an effort to win an argument you claim you don't wish to have) you exposed a perception of potential bias, and at that point many of us are going to expect more from you.
    I have no bias.. My posts in this thread taken as a whole did address the OPs original question regarding accuracy. After that we got side tracked. What can I say. I have strong opinions about things. Just like I can see that you do... and believe me, I do respect your post count here. You are very much more valuable to this forum then I will ever be..

    Regarding me being a dealer. I did not mention that to win any argument or gain any advantage in any argument. My dealings as a firearms dealer are not my many stay in life.. I don't treat it that way..

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtibbals View Post
    Well this has been interesting?!? I think.....Well I spent a lot of time reading last night and talked to Noveske this morning and they answered all of these questions and more!!! I learned more in 20 min of them talking than probably reading for months...they will be getting my business!!! Placing the order next week......I really can't see how I could go wrong buying from them and dealing with a company that is so customer service minded.

    I can't wait to add it to my collection.

    FYI they feel the 16" vs 18" is splitting hairs most of the time, feel that the 16" will do what I need to, save a little weight and both will shoot sub moa in the right conditions etc etc.....all of you are right about these claims being in best case scenarios however it is like buying a 4x4 or a sports car that you know will do more than you ever will want it to...a quality rifle is the same. I am not up to the skill level that this rifle can deliver but I want to grow into the rifle and not be held back as I improve etc.

    David
    Congrats man!
    They're getting my business on an 18" 308 barrel as soon as any come in stock ANYWHERE lol.
    Last edited by caelumatra; 02-23-11 at 14:46.

  10. #40
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    I am a big fan of Noveske barrels. Most of my SPR / DM type of builds have been based off of their 18" barrels. If I were going to put another together today I would like to go with their SS Lightweight 16" Midlength barrel. But that is just me.

    I have some good experience in the sniping community and CQB areas. I will say that with an 18" barrel consistently hitting out to 900+ yards on 18"x30" steel became a bit boring. I am quite sure a 16" within normal ranges is way more than enough. But having a lighter and shorter rifle does come in handy when humping / stalking and building / room clearing. 18" works well but obviously wouldn't be as desirable as a lighter and shorter rifle. So it is trade-offs. So for the normal or effective ranges of the 5.56, I think the 16" will do very well and the weight / length will be a big plus.

    Might I ask what DM type of course are you looking at, or which one in particular?

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