Need Advice on a 12Ga Pump

[70extreme]

The comparison list is obsolete and misleading:

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

THIS IS A $15 UPGRADE FROM BROWNELLS.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

THIS IS A DISADVANTAGE. 870 EXPRESS GUNS ALWAYS GO BANG. NON ISSUE.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

THEY BOTH USE THE SAME SPRING NOW.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

DOES NOT APPLY ANYMORE.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

WHO CARES?

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

THE EXPRESS IS FINE. I HAVE WOOD ON MINE. JUST AS GOOD.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

YOU CAN BUY THE 870 EXPRESS WITH OR WITHOUT AN EXTENSION. NON ISSUE.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

THE EXPRESS FINISH IS FINE.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

SYNTHETIC IS BETTER.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

THEY BOTH WORK.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

TAKE THE EXTRA MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT ON THE POLICE AND PRACTICE. THE EXPRESS WILL BE SMOOTH TOO.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

MIM IS FINE. THEY DO NOT BREAK. NEEDLESS WORRYING.

[Moose-Knuckle]

The comparison list is obsolete and misleading:

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

THIS IS A $15 UPGRADE FROM BROWNELLS.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

THIS IS A DISADVANTAGE. 870 EXPRESS GUNS ALWAYS GO BANG. NON ISSUE.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

THEY BOTH USE THE SAME SPRING NOW.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

DOES NOT APPLY ANYMORE.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

WHO CARES?

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

THE EXPRESS IS FINE. I HAVE WOOD ON MINE. JUST AS GOOD.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

YOU CAN BUY THE 870 EXPRESS WITH OR WITHOUT AN EXTENSION. NON ISSUE.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

THE EXPRESS FINISH IS FINE.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

SYNTHETIC IS BETTER.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

THEY BOTH WORK.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

TAKE THE EXTRA MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT ON THE POLICE AND PRACTICE. THE EXPRESS WILL BE SMOOTH TOO.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

MIM IS FINE. THEY DO NOT BREAK. NEEDLESS WORRYING.

I could have bought a DPMS instead of my Colt, but I sleep a little easier a night knowing I have something that at the least meets DOD procurement standards.

[TheGreenRanger24]

I could have bought a DPMS instead of my Colt, but I sleep a little easier a night knowing I have something that at the least meets DOD procurement standards.

That is more or less the point I was trying to convey. Personally, I would rather spend a little more and get a known variable than try to upgrade something along the way (at least, for one's first shotgun). Besides, the 870P fits more along the lines of what the OP was looking for to begin with.

[TOrrock]

Well....you can just keep on keeping on believing that.....I'm also guessing your Express is sitting next to your Bushmaster.

The comparison list is obsolete and misleading:

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

THIS IS A $15 UPGRADE FROM BROWNELLS.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

THIS IS A DISADVANTAGE. 870 EXPRESS GUNS ALWAYS GO BANG. NON ISSUE.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

THEY BOTH USE THE SAME SPRING NOW.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

DOES NOT APPLY ANYMORE.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

WHO CARES?

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

THE EXPRESS IS FINE. I HAVE WOOD ON MINE. JUST AS GOOD.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

YOU CAN BUY THE 870 EXPRESS WITH OR WITHOUT AN EXTENSION. NON ISSUE.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

THE EXPRESS FINISH IS FINE.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

SYNTHETIC IS BETTER.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

THEY BOTH WORK.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

TAKE THE EXTRA MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT ON THE POLICE AND PRACTICE. THE EXPRESS WILL BE SMOOTH TOO.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

MIM IS FINE. THEY DO NOT BREAK. NEEDLESS WORRYING.

[70extreme]

Straw man arguments.

This is not an AR discussion. It is a discussion about whether a man should pay 2x the amount for essentially the same shotgun because it says "Police" on it.

There are no significant differences. Buy an Express and spend $15 on a follower/mag spring upgrade. You're done.

Or, waste your money to be just like the police. A fool and his money are soon parted.

[TheGreenRanger24]

A fool and his money are soon parted.

How very true.

[JEL458]

OP, an 870 Police or Wingmaster would either serve you equally well and would be my personal choices, in that order.

70extreme, unfortunately the ignore user feature still shows your posts when someone else quotes you. This is the second shotgun thread that you have completely derailed by stating your opinions as fact. Please stop doing that. You would do better to state that those features mean nothing TO YOU. Please state your background about what makes you an authority on shotguns, their customization and use. Thank you.

[ShortytheFirefighter]

Or if you don't mind some cosmetic issues you can always look for a department used 870 Police Model. They are available from time to time. I picked up a former ND State Patrol 870P for 140.00 bucks that's in great shape save for a few cosmetic rack issues which didn't even affect the parkerizing. 18in barrel, extended mag, synthetic forend.

Nothing like spending 1/3 of what I would have for an Express and getting a better gun.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Straw man arguments.

This is not an AR discussion. It is a discussion about whether a man should pay 2x the amount for essentially the same shotgun because it says "Police" on it.

There are no significant differences. Buy an Express and spend $15 on a follower/mag spring upgrade. You're done.

Or, waste your money to be just like the police. A fool and his money are soon parted.

The 870P is not just a "Police" model, it is a DOD issued system among others. You wanna be cheap, it's your dime. Fellow member and SME CombatDiver has posted some great pics of Remingtons in the above sticky for Military Shotgun Photos. I don't see any Express models in there.

[Redmanfms]

Straw man arguments.

This is not an AR discussion. It is a discussion about whether a man should pay 2x the amount for essentially the same shotgun because it says "Police" on it.

There are no significant differences. Buy an Express and spend $15 on a follower/mag spring upgrade. You're done.

Or, waste your money to be just like the police. A fool and his money are soon parted.

Sometimes you just don't know what you just don't know, and you just don't know.

I've got no problem with people who challenge convention, but if you are going to do it against people who are a known quantity and have a long-standing track record of supplying sound information, you better have some pretty compelling evidence. You haven't posted anything as yet to indicate to me (or anyone else) that you have something to offer other than an unsubstantiated contrary opinion.