Need Advice on a 12Ga Pump

[terrymo]

Responses like "big deal", "means nothing", and "who cares" do not contribute anything of value to this forum.

[antlad]

Geez guys, didn't mean to create a shit storm here.
Just to be clear my intended primary use for this shotgun aside from the defensive course I am required to take is for protection against 4 legged toothy critters. Anything from Polar bears to wolves. My secondary purpose is for home defense which around here can be 2 or 4 legged assailants. I am not LE, I'm not being deployed to a war zone and don't plan on jumping out of airplanes and rolling around in the sand. Having said that the thing must go bang every time for reasons stated above. It needs to operate in extreme cold, extreme rain, salt environments and dirt & grime. It will however spend most of it's time in the safe and cleaned properly when necessary.

I like the pricepoint of the express, the reputation of the 870p, and the military service of the 590a1. I think my selection will be one of these 3. The only accessory I could see installing is a side saddle, sling and possibly a railed fore grip or similar mount for a light.

I would like to hear about any failures you all have had with either of the aforementioned weapons. FTE's, FTF's, broken parts, defective finishes etc.

[TOrrock]

Geez guys, didn't mean to create a shit storm here.
Just to be clear my intended primary use for this shotgun aside from the defensive course I am required to take is for protection against 4 legged toothy critters. Anything from Polar bears to wolves. My secondary purpose is for home defense which around here can be 2 or 4 legged assailants. I am not LE, I'm not being deployed to a war zone and don't plan on jumping out of airplanes and rolling around in the sand. Having said that the thing must go bang every time for reasons stated above. It needs to operate in extreme cold, extreme rain, salt environments and dirt & grime. It will however spend most of it's time in the safe and cleaned properly when necessary.

I like the pricepoint of the express, the reputation of the 870p, and the military service of the 590a1. I think my selection will be one of these 3. The only accessory I could see installing is a side saddle, sling and possibly a railed fore grip or similar mount for a light.

I would like to hear about any failures you all have had with either of the aforementioned weapons. FTE's, FTF's, broken parts, defective finishes etc.

I've had several instances of failures to extract on several Mossberg 500's and 590's. I've seen the finishes on the 870 Express rush like a mother if you look at it cross eyed. I've seen the plastic trigger guards on both Mossberg 500's, 590's, and 870 Expresses break.

[Travis B]

I would like to hear about any failures you all have had with either of the aforementioned weapons. FTE's, FTF's, broken parts, defective finishes etc.

No issues at all with mine. Runs like a champ

I've seen the plastic trigger guards on both Mossberg 500's, 590's, and 870 Expresses break.

Go with the 590A1 line with all metal parts. Really can't go wrong with the price point

[TheGreenRanger24]

Geez guys, didn't mean to create a shit storm here.

You didn't. Such is what happens when asking things upon the internet. Luckily, this board doesn't typically put up with a lot of crap.

For accessories, you can look at some of the stuff Mesa Tactical has to offer. You can pretty much find whatever your heart desires . . . especially if you choose an 870 (or a 590a1). http://www.mesatactical.com/

[antlad]

I've had several instances of failures to extract on several Mossberg 500's and 590's. I've seen the finishes on the 870 Express rush like a mother if you look at it cross eyed. I've seen the plastic trigger guards on both Mossberg 500's, 590's, and 870 Expresses break.

Regarding the finish of the express; did it rust because of prolonged exposure to the elements or stored when wet? Could you elaborate on the circumstance a bit? I'm curious to know if you oiled the receiver & barrel. If so what what oil did you use?

[TOrrock]

Regarding the finish of the express; did it rust because of prolonged exposure to the elements or stored when wet? Could you elaborate on the circumstance a bit? I'm curious to know if you oiled the receiver & barrel. If so what what oil did you use?

I sold quite a few of them, and unless kept slathered in oil, they'd rust down here in VA with our high humidity, especially after being handled, with people depositing body oils and acids on them, or sweating on them in the summer.

[ST911]

Before someone closes this thread, I'd like to hear more from 70extreme, to better understand the basis of his input:

What is the context of your use of a shotgun? (Sport/Rec/Home Defense/LE/Mil)

870 Armorer? Remington trained? Otherwise a maintainer? Otherwise responsible for an inventory of guns going in harms way in some form (LE/mil)?

[DireWulf]

Your obnoxious attitude and arrogance isn't contributing meaningfully to this discussion. I say arrogance because you have demonstrated quite effectively your lack of or very limited experience with the 870 Police shotgun, yet you presume to give advice in contradiction to those who have extensive training and experience with the 870 Police. As an armorer, my opinion is that the 870 Police model has, by far, the fewest issues and failures of any of the 870 line. Some of the things that you listed as "FINE" on the Express have been changed by Remington on the Police model because they can and do fail more often. If you had experience with this weapon you would know that. My assessment comes from servicing the shotguns of a 4,000 officer police department and those of the multitude of agencies that train at the police academy for nearly 20 years. The 870 Police is the gold standard of pump action service shotguns.

Stay in your lane from now on.

The comparison list is obsolete and misleading:

• 870 Police shotguns go thru a special 23 station check list – ranging from visual inspection, functional testing, test firing, and final inspection.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All Police shotguns are assembled in a “special build area” at the plant in Ilion, NY. This section is secured and serves only to build LE and Military shotguns, with the same factory personnel working at that assignment each shift.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• All parts that enter the “special build area” are visually inspected by hand to ensure top quality and functionality.

BIG DEAL. MEANS NOTHING.

• Due to heavy recoil in buck and slug loads, all 870 Police guns have a longer magazine spring which ensures positive feed and function.

THIS IS A $15 UPGRADE FROM BROWNELLS.

• A heavier sear spring is used to generate a reliable, positive trigger pull between 5 and 8 lbs.

THIS IS A DISADVANTAGE. 870 EXPRESS GUNS ALWAYS GO BANG. NON ISSUE.

• A heavier carrier dog spring is used to ensure when the carrier elevates the shell, it will be held there until the bolt can push it into the chamber. This ensures positive feeding when using heavier payload rounds.

THEY BOTH USE THE SAME SPRING NOW.

• Police shotguns do not have an ISS (Integrated Safety System) which is a locking mechanism on the safety of commercial shotguns. This type of locking mechanism can cause delay to an officer who needs the weapon but does not have the appropriate key. LE shotguns have the standard, proven, cross bolt safety.

DOES NOT APPLY ANYMORE.

• The fore-end on the Express model is longer and not compatible with many police shotgun vehicle racks.

WHO CARES?

• The Police shotguns utilize the heavy duty SPEEDFEED Stocks and Fore-ends.

THE EXPRESS IS FINE. I HAVE WOOD ON MINE. JUST AS GOOD.

• The Express model will not allow for the addition of an extension tube without physical modification to the tube and barrel, which can nullify the warranty.

YOU CAN BUY THE 870 EXPRESS WITH OR WITHOUT AN EXTENSION. NON ISSUE.

• The Express model has a BEAD BLAST BLUE finish while the Police models utilize either High Luster bluing or Parkerization.

THE EXPRESS FINISH IS FINE.

• The Express model utilizes a synthetic trigger housing while the Police models use a compressed metal housing.

SYNTHETIC IS BETTER.

• The Police shotgun barrel is locked down with a “ball detent” system in conjunction with the magazine cap vs. a lesser grade “synthetic magazine spring retainer” lock down as used on the Express system.

THEY BOTH WORK.

• The receivers used in Police guns are “vibra honed” to smooth out rough finishes and remove burrs before parkerization or bluing.

TAKE THE EXTRA MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT ON THE POLICE AND PRACTICE. THE EXPRESS WILL BE SMOOTH TOO.

• Police shotguns use machined ejectors and extractors, as opposed to powdered metal cast which are utilized on the Express models.

MIM IS FINE. THEY DO NOT BREAK. NEEDLESS WORRYING.

[70extreme]

Challenge any of my statements based on the FACTS listed in my analysis of the obsolete and misleading marketing document known as

"Important differences between Remington 870 Police and 870 Express shotguns"

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to analyze the difference in two shotguns from the same company. It is all marketing. If you need to have "Police" stamped on the side of your gun to tell you it is the best, go for it. I can't help you.