Need Advice on a 12Ga Pump

[70extreme]

Fair -- and final -- warning, gents: if the bickering continues, the hammer will fall. Please dial back the rhetoric and address (only) the facts.

AC

That has been my point all along. The only significant difference between an 870E and an 870P is the finish and a few $10 parts. Your 870E will not rust shut and get you killed if you simply wipe it down (basic gun care).

Facts.

[DireWulf]

That has been my point all along. The only significant difference between an 870E and an 870P is the finish and a few $10 parts. Your 870E will not rust shut and get you killed if you simply wipe it down (basic gun care).

Facts.

I'll try to explain this in the simplest terms possible. Just because you state a set of facts, doesn't mean that the ones that other people state are invalid. You have a belief based upon your experience. Other people have beliefs based on their experiences. The consensus of the information given here, gained though several decades of combined professional experience contradicts much of what you believe. You have these choices:

1) Tell everyone else that they are wrong and that your one man representative sample is the only valid point of view.

2) Call people liars by insinuating that what they've seen with their own eyes is B.S.

3) Ignore facts presented by professional armorers that you have no answer for and then demand a debate of the facts. All of your points have been addressed and countered. Whether you comprehend that is another story.

4) Ignore questions about the breadth of your knowledge and experience. (These questions help others who read this discussion give weight to your point of view as opposed to others.)

5) Acknowledge that although your gun has worked out well for you, there seems to be experiences that differ greatly across a wider sample than just one gun.

You've done the first four very well. Now how about following the rules instead of trying be the loudest voice in the room. You can learn a lot here, you just have to keep your ears open. I'm really trying to keep this from being locked, because there's a good discussion with a new member going on outside of your tirade.

Those, sir, are the facts.

[chris914]

Guys,

I could be wrong here but I think Rob has more than likely fired more shotgun rounds than most all of us combined. Rob points out the finish, extractor, the synthetic trigger group housing and the carrier dog spring as issues with the express line.

I think his experience echos what has been said here.

[TOrrock]

Your "experience" means nothing. Stick with the facts. Wipe the gun down, and you are fine.

You gotta love marketing.

Please read these threads.


https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70019

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54936

[TheGreenRanger24]

You are correct, there are differences between the 870 E and 870P, but not as many as there used to be when that differences list was put out by Remington.

I see that list quoted frequently and feel it is misleading to do so without pointing out the updates. That is not intended as a dig at you or others as many people do not realize the list is not fully accurate anymore. Now that I have read the whole thread (whew!) I see that 70 did post the updated info; although, I would have probably done so in a different manner.

I'll admit I haven't paid as much attention to Express line here lately; it's good to hear Remington is giving them a little more attention. (Oh, I know your post wasn't meant as a dig at me or others, so no worries there.)

From my point of view and admittedly limited use as a civvy, if I were looking at getting a shotgun for dedicated home defense/duty use, I would look at getting the best from the get-go. Take a class with a either an 870P (or an 590a1) and see what works for you. If you decide later on that you want another 870 (for a trunk gun, fun gun, back-up, etc.), hopefully you will have the experience to know if upgrading an express would (or wouldn't) work for you. The point here is that getting the best will give you a base-line to work from for whatever future projects you might have.

On a side note: 70, is your express blued or is it one of the hunting camo painted ones? I don't know if that would make much of a difference when talking about rust, but I am curious.

[Moose-Knuckle]

So I've narrowed it down to two guns. This might be unfair to the 590a1 but I cannot find one locally to handle.

I special ordered my 590 from a local Wal-Mart hunting counter of all places. Some stores have stopped selling firearms all together, while some, usually in rural areas will still sell them. Good luck in your query. . .

[70extreme]

My express is the black matte finish. I have four. I timed myself. It takes less than two minutes to wipe down a gun. The rags always show brown on them due to surface rust whether they have been sitting in the safe or out in a wet duck blind. No big deal. My Benelli M1S90, M2, and Remington 700 do the exact same thing. Wipe it down if the rust bothers you. It does not effect function. Since everyone is into "experiences", I have seen guys dump 870E in saltwater marshes, shake it off, and continue to hunt. It is a pump shotgun. One guy even used his as a boat oar and it still worked.

What I object to is the self proclaimed experts telling people to "stay in their lane" when the FACTS are being discussed. I have no interest in who they think they are or their so called experience. The facts are all that matter. If you can't back up the position with facts, nothing has been proved. A gun is not worth nearly double because it has a few questionable $10 parts and a different finish because the finish really does not matter if a person practices basic gun care.

[Moose-Knuckle]

My express is the black matte finish. I have four. I timed myself. It takes less than two minutes to wipe down a gun. The rags always show brown on them due to surface rust whether they have been sitting in the safe or out in a wet duck blind. No big deal. My Benelli M1S90, M2, and Remington 700 do the exact same thing. Wipe it down if the rust bothers you. It does not effect function. Since everyone is into "experiences", I have seen guys dump 870E in saltwater marshes, shake it off, and continue to hunt. It is a pump shotgun. One guy even used his as a boat oar and it still worked.

What I object to is the self proclaimed experts telling people to "stay in their lane" when the FACTS are being discussed. I have no interest in who they think they are or their so called experience. The facts are all that matter. If you can't back up the position with facts, nothing has been proved. A gun is not worth nearly double because it has a few questionable $10 parts and a different finish because the finish really does not matter if a person practices basic gun care.

This is M4C, you won't last long here, save it for GT or TOS.

[DireWulf]

This is M4C, you won't last long here, save it for GT or TOS.

I wouldn't worry too much. He'll die on this hill. That much is apparent.

Onward, what kind of wait time did you have for your 590 though WalMart and was there any up-charge for a special order? I'm thinking of picking up a bird gun from them.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Onward, what kind of wait time did you have for your 590 though WalMart and was there any up-charge for a special order? I'm thinking of picking up a bird gun from them.

I ordered mine from there back in '00. If memory serves me correctly the lead time was around three to four weeks.