Question Your Beliefs...

[kartoffel]

Sigh.....

This is M4C so let's keep it topical. I think they're saying that an uninspected, mystery metal carbine is good to go as long as you faith in it.

Makes sense really, if you think about it. DMPS and Oly's QC departments are clearly operating on a wing and a prayer.

[Littlelebowski]

You misconstrue. I'm an atheist.

[Redmanfms]

Yup, Dawkins and Sagan are just perpetuating a different religion, right?

Sigh.....

I suggest you read the book.



And yes, atheism is a belief system. You can no more scientifically prove there is no God (or gods, or flying spaghetti monster) than I can prove to you (using things like the Big Bang or unexplained order) that God exists. You believe God doesn't exist, but have absolutely no way to prove it. Reads a lot like faith to me.

Lack of evidence does not in fact equal evidence in the negative. It's a fairly basic scientific precept and one discussed at length in the book.

ETA: Berlinsky is agnostic/secularist, FYI.

ETA 2: I find it more than a little amusing that a member of a group of so-called questioners (atheists), is the first to react poorly to having beliefs questioned......

[rubberneck]

Screw Sagan. L Ron Hubbard's books are the key to understanding everything.

[Gutshot John]

Any belief one holds should be subjected to intense critical thought...on an ongoing and repeated basis.

It's how I became a conservative.

[Littlelebowski]

Lack of belief in the supernatural does not make one a believer. Using your logic, the Easter Bunny could exist. Silly crap.

I assume you believe in all gods then? Since they can't be disproven according to you......

I suggest you read the book.



And yes, atheism is a belief system. You can no more scientifically prove there is no God (or gods, or flying spaghetti monster) than I can prove to you (using things like the Big Bang or unexplained order) that God exists. You believe God doesn't exist, but have absolutely no way to prove it. Reads a lot like faith to me.

Lack of evidence does not in fact equal evidence in the negative. It's a fairly basic scientific precept and one discussed at length in the book.

ETA: Berlinsky is agnostic/secularist, FYI.

ETA 2: I find it more than a little amusing that a member of a group of so-called questioners (atheists), is the first to react poorly to having beliefs questioned......

[Redmanfms]

Lack of belief in the supernatural does not make one a believer. Using your logic, the Easter Bunny could exist. Silly crap.

I assume you believe in all gods then? Since they can't be disproven according to you......

Let's see:

Non sequitur.
Straw man.
Genetic fallacy.
Cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

All in one 38 word post, beautiful. You are pretty far from making an impression of rational and logical with your posts thus far.

No I don't "believe" in all gods, however; I don't reject their existence out-of-hand because I fail to believe in them.



To make a positive affirmation about something, one must proffer evidence to support it or it is a belief and not a fact. You, as an atheist, are responsible for providing said evidence in the non-existence of God. My evidence for belief in a Supreme Being is unexplainable order and everything out of nothing (Big Bang). Can I prove God's existence with this evidence? No. That's where faith comes in. The evidence *supports* my belief (at least as I see it).

If you honestly had no faith one way or the other, you'd be an agnostic. You make a claim of non-existence without a shred of evidence to support the claim, that is faith.

Dawkins himself has admitted that his views constitute a belief as he lacks the evidence to substantiate his claim that there is NO God. A statement, after realizing the startling implications, he has walked back.

Atheism, as it stand now, is no more scientifically-grounded than is theism. Science doesn't prove there is no God. My objection to atheism isn't so much that people don't believe as I do, it's that they fallaciously claim that there belief in non-god is somehow more valid and "reasoned" without any evidence to back it up. That is pretense, and I frankly think that's probably what most people of faith would tell you they have a problem with.


I again, strongly recommend you read Berlinsky's book. It isn't a religious book, and if you are truly a skeptic, you'd at least have the courage to skeptically examine you own belief system.






ETA: This constitutes the end of my presence in this thread.

[Littlelebowski]

Nice bowing out. So much for the burden of proof being on the one who asserts that supernatural beings exist.

Anyway, your assertion that supernatural being exist is truly a matter of faith. Until you start making claims as to what they have done. Are you doing more than throwing your hands up in the air and saying I don't know, therefore supernatural beings exist!

And you actually criticize atheists for not believing in what they cannot physically quantify? Seriously?

You are attempting to rationalize your own belief in the unprovable by criticizing those who ask for proof. Intellectual paupery.

From my favorite book....

The four points of the compass be logic, knowledge, wisdom and the unknown. Some do bow in that final direction. Others advance upon it. To bow before the one is to lose sight of the three. I may submit to the unknown, but never to the unknowable. The man who bows in that final direction is either a saint or a fool. I have no use for either."

But this is your last post in this thread..... Go pray to your unprovable, quantifiable boogeyman in the sky, and whisper to yourself "those atheists are religious just like me.". It obviously makes you feel better.

[Artos]

crap, i'll bite...will be more than happy to read it.

I'm already riding the faith train to the cross & don't expect anyone here to believe or absorb my personal experiences. I've seen God work in my life and doubt anything I'm able to post will bring anyone to salvation as I know it.

It's not an x marks the spot deal...it's like a child like faith in santa clause & taking that same stupidness to believing the Bible cover to cover.

I choose to to put my faith in Jesus...period.

Do I wish all those here that I admire and respect would find Him...sure. I've just realized arm twisting & nagging doesn't help. I just pray the bit of seed takes hold somewhere.

sorry, that's all i got.

I mostly hope all my fellow believers here would stop picking the fly crap out of the pepper. The kitchen pass should be our concern...most want to argue about works / purgatory / baptism / etc...all that does is make us look silly.

Keep your eye on the prize.

<><

[kartoffel]

crap, i'll bite...will be more than happy to read it.

I'm already riding the faith train to the cross & don't expect anyone here to believe or absorb my personal experiences. I've seen God work in my life and doubt anything I'm able to post will bring anyone to salvation as I know it.

It's not an x marks the spot deal...it's like a child like faith in santa clause & taking that same stupidness to believing the Bible cover to cover.

I choose to to put my faith in Jesus...period.

Do I wish all those here that I admire and respect would find Him...sure. I've just realized arm twisting & nagging doesn't help. I just pray the bit of seed takes hold somewhere.

sorry, that's all i got.

I mostly hope all my fellow believers here would stop picking the fly crap out of the pepper. The kitchen pass should be our concern...most want to argue about works / purgatory / baptism / etc...all that does is make us look silly.

Keep your eye on the prize.

<><

I respect religion because of the evidence of the good it does for society: people helping each other, being ethical, good, etc. No religion is free from flaws and bad stuff, but in general I find that it's a net positive. If religion works for you, rock on.

Now, do I personally believe it? No, but no disrespect intended (even if I think some are misguided). You might call me a skeptic and while that is true, I think of it as keeping a rational, objective, open mind.

Remember, the Greek root skepsis does not mean denial. It means, literally, examination.