Yeah...It's Loaded...

[QuietShootr]

I mean no offense, GS, but you definitely have some ingrained Easterner mentality if seeing someone with a gun makes you uneasy.

The problem here is one of cultural differences. I've noticed even the shooters in New York/NJ/PA/CT have a tendency to not inherently believe in the right to carry a gun. This is a result of a lifetime of cultural conditioning, and I'm not sure any amount of reasoning will overcome your gut instincts. I used to live out there, I am well aware of the atmosphere and the way guns and shooters are thought of.

By contrast, where I live, seeing someone with a pistol usually doesn't even draw a comment. We had a lawyer here in Bloomington, IN (a liberal cesspool, and as an IU grad I'm qualified to say that) who decided to OC a pistol for a year as a kind of experiment, and he found at the end of the year that even in that hotbed of pinkos, he couldn't find anybody who cared enough even to ask him about it.

I live in spitting distance of Indianapolis, which is a city of 1,000,000 or more, and I was downtown at the Capitol Grille having dinner with my wife a couple of weeks ago. A guy was sitting at the bar with a J-frame in his back pocket, and nobody cared a whit.

I'm not criticizing. It's the way you were raised...but you don't understand, any more than I'm ever going to walk down the street and see two guys tonguing each other and not be a little shocked by it.

[skyugo]

Oh, I was hoping there was some magical time of the day that I wasn't aware of yet.

it's a free country man

[Gutshot John]

I mean no offense, GS, but you definitely have some ingrained Easterner mentality if seeing someone with a gun makes you uneasy.

I mean no offense but if you're not looking at someone with a gun, in a place/time where it is out of context, as a potential threat than you're living in a fantasy land and need to get your head in the game.

Like I said it all depends on context. In the proper context I have no problems. I live in SW PA, a state with some of the most liberal gun laws in the country, where hunters going in and out of the woods with rifles/shotguns etc don't make me bat an eye. Someone walking in downtown Pittsburgh with a handgun on their hip is another matter. I'm definitely checking to see if that person is a threat to me or those I care about. You might call that an "easterner mentality" I call that common sense.

Common sense applies and making yourself a target for the sake of making a political statement is ****ing retarded.

[QuietShootr]

I mean no offense but if you're not looking at someone with a gun, in a place/time where it is out of context, as a potential threat than you're living in a fantasy land and need to get your head in the game.

Like I said it all depends on context. In the proper context I have no problems. I live in SW PA, a state with some of the most liberal gun laws in the country, where hunters going in and out of the woods with rifles/shotguns etc don't make me bat an eye. Someone walking in downtown Pittsburgh with a handgun on their hip is another matter. I'm definitely checking to see if that person is a threat to me or those I care about. You might call that an "easterner mentality" I call that common sense.

Common sense applies and making yourself a target for the sake of making a political statement is ****ing retarded.

The point is, someone walking around with a holstered handgun is perceived one of two ways in the East: A cop, or a threat. However, there's a good possibility it's just a regular person going about his business, who happens to be armed. You can't tell a threat from a regular person, because in your environment everyone who is visibly armed outside a hunting field and is not a cop, is a threat. It's not that way everywhere.

I only rarely OC, but when I do I make sure to dress nicely, help old ladies across the street, say sir and ma'am, and generally make a regular Eagle Scout of myself. Seeing normal-looking people openly carrying a weapon is, as Steyr said, a big part of desensitizing the sheep. I agree with him about Caitlin Rutherford. The last chick looks exactly like what "Big City Thinkers" think of when they think of a gun person - and God bless her for exercising her rights, but a Yankee seeing a girl like Caitlin carrying is more likely to question their preconceived notions.

I think you're probably a good guy, but if you truly want to get your 'head in the game' as it were, you need to examine your gut reactions to OC and why you have those reactions. It's conditioning.

[Gutshot John]

The point is, someone walking around with a holstered handgun is perceived one of two ways in the East: A cop, or a threat. However, there's a good possibility it's just a regular person going about his business, who happens to be armed. You can't tell a threat from a regular person, because in your environment everyone who is visibly armed outside a hunting field and is not a cop, is a threat. It's not that way everywhere.

I only rarely OC, but when I do I make sure to dress nicely, help old ladies across the street, say sir and ma'am, and generally make a regular Eagle Scout of myself. Seeing normal-looking people openly carrying a weapon is, as Steyr said, a big part of desensitizing the sheep. I agree with him about Caitlin Rutherford. The last chick looks exactly like what "Big City Thinkers" think of when they think of a gun person - and God bless her for exercising her rights, but a Yankee seeing a girl like Caitlin carrying is more likely to question their preconceived notions.

I think you're probably a good guy, but if you truly want to get your 'head in the game' as it were, you need to examine your gut reactions to OC and why you have those reactions. It's conditioning.

So what you're saying is that it all depends on context? I couldn't agree more.

If I see someone OC'ing who acts like an eagle scout I'm probably ok with it. Do I draw down on someone because they happen to be carrying a gun? Of course not, I assume he's a law obeying citizen until he proves otherwise, but you can bet I'm keeping a close eye on him. Yep.You call it conditioning maybe, I also call it common sense until I can determine what his motivations are.

Like it was said, OC does for gun rights what assless chaps do for gay rights.

[QuietShootr]

So what you're saying is that it all depends on context?

I couldn't agree more.

Yes. In the context of where I live, and most probably where Steyr lives....and now in Arizona and a growing number of other places - a weapon is a perfectly normal thing to see in the course of a regular day, at the grocery store, the movie theater, and the restaurant... no more alarming than seeing a cellphone or a pocketknife. That's the way it should be.

[Gutshot John]

Yes. In the context of where I live, and most probably where Steyr lives....and now in Arizona and a growing number of other places - a weapon is a perfectly normal thing to see in the course of a regular day, at the grocery store, the movie theater, and the restaurant... no more alarming than seeing a cellphone or a pocketknife. That's the way it should be.

A cellphone and pocketknife are unlikely to pose a threat and have a variety of uses.

I used to live in Arizona and Texas and I visit both places often. I don't see most people walking around with guns on their hips. Even if I did they'd still be getting a second look. If I noticed someone CCW they'd be getting a second look also.

We live in a dangerous world. Armed or unarmed I'm always looking for potential threats. Someone with a firearm is going to get looked over more than once. YMMV.

[QuietShootr]

A cellphone and pocketknife are unlikely to pose a threat and have a variety of uses.

I used to live in Arizona and Texas and I visit both places often. I don't see most people walking around with guns on their hips. Even if I did they'd still be getting a second look. If I noticed someone CCW they'd be getting a second look also.

We live in a dangerous world. Armed or unarmed I'm always looking for potential threats. Someone with a firearm is going to get looked over more than once. YMMV.

I can see we are not going to be able to understand each other on this point. Do you realize, though, that your first sentence here could have come directly from Sarah Brady's talking points?

[SteyrAUG]

I mean no offense but if you're not looking at someone with a gun, in a place/time where it is out of context, as a potential threat than you're living in a fantasy land and need to get your head in the game.

At what point does "has a gun" become any more of a valid indicator than "being black"? Statistically both have some merit as a "probable indicator" but why should we accept one and reject the other?

If a person looks like a "probably thug", having a gun just means they are an "armed probable thug." And given that they seem to be a likely "probable thug" you should assume they are armed regardless.

By the same token if a given person looks like a "regular guy" I don't see how being armed makes him any more or less of a "regular guy."

I simply don't see "being armed" as an indicator of "being bad." I also don't feel threatened by a "regular guy" simply because he is armed. In FL I assume everyone with a fanny pack or reporter vest is armed. If their firearm were suddenly visible it wouldn't change my impression of them.

[QuietShootr]

At what point does "has a gun" become any more of a valid indicator than "being black"? Statistically both have some merit as a "probable indicator" but why should we accept one and reject the other?

If a person looks like a "probably thug", having a gun just means they are an "armed probable thug." And given that they seem to be a likely "probable thug" you should assume they are armed regardless.

By the same token if a given person looks like a "regular guy" I don't see how being armed makes him any more or less of a "regular guy."

I simply don't see "being armed" as an indicator of "being bad." I also don't feel threatened by a "regular guy" simply because he is armed. In FL I assume everyone with a fanny pack or reporter vest is armed. If their firearm were suddenly visible it wouldn't change my impression of them.

And this is the difference in mindset, even with people who purport to be on our side. The Eastern Megalopolis (as Col. Cooper used to call it)'s attitude toward civilian shooters is quite insidious. I think my original comparison is valid: no matter how many times I walk down a street in Berlin or San Francisco, seeing two guys slipping each other the tongue is going to cause an involuntary feeling of <ick> with me that is very similar to what a born-and-bred coaster feels when he sees a civilian carrying a gun.