20" MWS range report. Update pg2: Getting better

[Anchor Zero Six]

Thanks for the review.

I was checking out a 20" barrel at a local FFL last week. I wish LMT would sell complete uppers so I could leave an optic mounted. I guess I'm going to need another complete MWS instead .

LOL in the age of very repeatable QD mounts and quick change barrel systems like the MWS the only POSSIBLE solution would be another rifle. Going to use this argument on the fiance to get another rifle

[ALCOAR]

No I'm judging accuracy off several 5 round groups. My 2 cents groups larger than 5 rounds fired at a reasonable cadence is more a demonstration of the properties of heat expantion on metal and the flaws of the shooter. Hell people (myself included) throw flyers on 5 shot groups let alone 10 rnds.

IMO group shots are for establishing the inherent baseline accuracy of the equipment (rifle, round and zero). They have their place in determining the amount of deviation in the system but do little to show one way or the other the abilities of the sytem and driver working together.

Sorry I'm not sure if that was a remark about if I only got those results in an isolated instance (not the case) or if it was directed at the merits of 5round 100yd groups.

Firstly, great to see LMT got you squared away m1a, after all everyone makes mistakes, it's how we handle them that sets us apart.

For your first real recorded day at the range, I would say you did a great job. It's a great deal tougher to drive a precision .308 vs. a precision 5.56. There is most certainly a new learning curve associated with the .308 even if you own several precision 5.56 guns.

The following is not based on the review or the groups above but rather the legitimacy in what Belmont's reply had to say....and then what Anchor followed with. I would have to strongly disagree w. your assessment of judging a shooter..a rifle..and the combo in regards to groups. I won't re-hash this again as it comes up already enough with so many 3 and 5 rd. groups these days, but nothing can be interpreted from such small and insignificant sample sizes such as the ole 3 and 5 rd. groups. So with all do respect, doing it that way honestly yields no useful information in determining a shooter's ability and a said rifle's accuracy. Your quitting the group right when the metal meets the road and thereby the precision/accuracy can start to be evaluated.

[m1ajunkie]

No I'm judging accuracy off several 5 round groups. My 2 cents groups larger than 5 rounds fired at a reasonable cadence is more a demonstration of the properties of heat expantion on metal and the flaws of the shooter. Hell people (myself included) throw flyers on 5 shot groups let alone 10 rnds.

IMO group shots are for establishing the inherent baseline accuracy of the equipment (rifle, round and zero). They have their place in determining the amount of deviation in the system but do little to show one way or the other the abilities of the sytem and driver working together.

Sorry I'm not sure if that was a remark about if I only got those results in an isolated instance (not the case) or if it was directed at the merits of 5round 100yd groups.

Anchor, you are right.

Shooting a 10 round group non stop is hard for me to do and I think it shows in my groupings. I'm not sure what it is, but something just makes me feel fatigued about round 6 or 7. After that I'm not able to shoot the last couple rounds as focused as the first ones. I'm thinking that may be what causes the fliers in my 10 round groups.

I will say, 10 round groups are the way to go. Before I got into precision rifles, I only shot 5 round groups and could occasionally get 1" groups at 100yds, but a 1" 10 round group is tough for me.

[Belmont31R]

No I'm judging accuracy off several 5 round groups. My 2 cents groups larger than 5 rounds fired at a reasonable cadence is more a demonstration of the properties of heat expantion on metal and the flaws of the shooter. Hell people (myself included) throw flyers on 5 shot groups let alone 10 rnds.

IMO group shots are for establishing the inherent baseline accuracy of the equipment (rifle, round and zero). They have their place in determining the amount of deviation in the system but do little to show one way or the other the abilities of the sytem and driver working together.

Sorry I'm not sure if that was a remark about if I only got those results in an isolated instance (not the case) or if it was directed at the merits of 5round 100yd groups.

I don't believe your chrome lined MWS is shooting, on average, .5MOA or less consistently even with 5 round groups. If so you are shooting significantly smaller groups than every other MWS owner with the 16" CL'd barrel has claimed to date, and its a gun Ive kept up on seeing as I owned one and it continues to interest me to a good degree. If you can really shoot .5MOA groups one after the other then you have the most accurate MWS with the 16" CL'd barrel in existence.

[Belmont31R]

Anchor, you are right.

Shooting a 10 round group non stop is hard for me to do and I think it shows in my groupings. I'm not sure what it is, but something just makes me feel fatigued about round 6 or 7. After that I'm not able to shoot the last couple rounds as focused as the first ones. I'm thinking that may be what causes the fliers in my 10 round groups.

I will say, 10 round groups are the way to go. Before I got into precision rifles, I only shot 5 round groups and could occasionally get 1" groups at 100yds, but a 1" 10 round group is tough for me.

Thats the point. A lot of guns can occasionally group a single 5 round group into less than an inch. What really matters, and is a much better indicator, is 10 round groups averaged out and hopefully with a few kinds of ammo. That is how I judge my guns accuracy so if I claim 1.5MOA that is with several 10rd groups with several types of ammo. I could easily shoot a few 5 round groups over a period of months, post photos of them online, and claim the gun is .5MOA or .75 MOA even though thats less than half my average. If people were more realistic about their shooting and guns capability we wouldn't get so many people online who claim extraordinary shooting ability when its simply not true. There was a guy on here last year who claimed under MOA groups with a rack grade bushmaster at 200 yards. He may have done it once, a 3 round group, and then claimed the guns accuracy.


Ive posted up tons of my targets Ive shot...some good and some not very flattering but its an honest and realistic look at accuracy.

[Dave L.]

I shot a friend's CL'ed MWS with 175gr. FGMM and my best group was .74" at a hundred (It was only a 3 shot group, but I was impressed enough to put it on my to-buy list).

I'm not going to throw the BS flag for hearing .5" 10-round groups are shot at a hundred(with hand loads) but I'm interested in seeing the details.

[ALCOAR]

Just look below how easy it would be for me or whomever to call themselves and their said rifle a sub 1/2 moa shooter/rifle...look I even provided two 5 rd. groups.....


Now look at the next set of groups consisting of 10rds(the ones that count)...


All those groups were shot within a 20-30 min period using the same test vehicle(MRP Recce/Rock 16" SS) and the groups on the right are Vmax 55gr, ones on left are TAP T2.

It comes down to just being honest with yourself, sure I'd love to stop at 5 but once you see the real honest evaluation that takes place using 10rd. groups and multiple ones normally, you cannot go back anyway.

It stings the ass when people every single second on the internet especially throw out the whole sub moa line knowing damn well 99% of those sub moa groups were determined by only 3rds. I totally dismiss the whole sub moa line these days until I see the proof given just how many people taut their 3-5rd. groups.

[Anchor Zero Six]

Not wanting to hijack the thread so I'm going to start a new one. Sorry OP for the derail.

[m1ajunkie]

Updated op with today's bipod issues

[Eddiesketti]

That sucks about the bipod. Will you be going back out to see if the bipod was loose the whole time? I would be curious to see where you are when everything is in order.