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Thread: Can you cite specific failures of piston AR's?

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    Can you cite specific failures of piston AR's?

    I've read several threads here and other places where people claim having witnessed piston guns "failing" or "self destructing" but they usually make no other description of the failure. I'd like to see actual descriptions of parts or components that fail or break in the various piston designs. So the question is, have you seen or experience and actual parts breakage on a piston model AR? What part was it that broke? Any photos of the breakage would be fantastic.

    Things like carrier tilt are not germane here unless they actually broke something as that issue seems to be fairly well remedied.

    I'm wondering if descriptions of piston guns failing are due to other poor components (out of spec barrels, etc) making the gun fail or are actual breakage of parts?

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    Good topic, I'd be interested as well. Other than some abnormal wearing of receiver extensions due to tilt, I haven't seen any parts breakage reports either. As a piston owner (LMT) I've definitely paid lots of attention to the piston discussions and reports on the various boards.
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    M ine chronically brakes little holes in targets at 100 yards. But thats it?

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    Mine was attributed to the magazine, not the gun. Barrett 6.8 mags have a lip at the rear of the follower that my bolt catch had gotten underneath preventing me from stripping the magazine from the weapon, it happened enough I ordered a few C Products magazines and havent had an issue since.

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    Hopefully a few who repeatedly poo-poo the piston guns will chime in at some point.

    I don't own one so Im certainly not a koolaid drinker but find the idea a good one for guns with suppressors, I have very mediocre results with gas guns using a can. Reliability takes a nose dive in my experience.

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    My 416 had few issues but it did have a few. First issue was when a leg of my firing pin retaining cotter pin broke off and locked my bolt halfway back. Second i had a bolt prong sheer off on the non extractor side. I continued to shoot the gun for at least a couple of thousand rounds to see how it would do and it even continued to work after the second prong sheered off...third prong sheered off and gun became a bolt action. Justmy limited experience with the 416. Would still trust ,y life to it if parts weren't so hard to get....ultimately i decided that a well maintained di m4with plenty of replacement parts was a better fit for me than a high speed gun that i couldn't maintain properly in regards to parts.

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    I am confused. You had mediocre results with a piston gun and suppressor or a DI gun and suppresor?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Biased_Observer View Post
    Hopefully a few who repeatedly poo-poo the piston guns will chime in at some point.

    I don't own one so Im certainly not a koolaid drinker but find the idea a good one for guns with suppressors, I have very mediocre results with gas guns using a can. Reliability takes a nose dive in my experience.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk



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    Carrier tilt is actually important. Tell me what happens to the bolt if the carrier is tilting downward into the lower receiver extension?

    There are reports (I haven't seen one) of the bolt lugs cracking on some bolts.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Biased_Observer View Post
    I've read several threads here and other places where people claim having witnessed piston guns "failing" or "self destructing" but they usually make no other description of the failure. I'd like to see actual descriptions of parts or components that fail or break in the various piston designs. So the question is, have you seen or experience and actual parts breakage on a piston model AR? What part was it that broke? Any photos of the breakage would be fantastic.

    Things like carrier tilt are not germane here unless they actually broke something as that issue seems to be fairly well remedied.

    I'm wondering if descriptions of piston guns failing are due to other poor components (out of spec barrels, etc) making the gun fail or are actual breakage of parts?



    Owner/Instructor at Semper Paratus Arms

    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SemperParatusArms/

    Semper Paratus Arms AR15 Armorer Course http://www.semperparatusarms.com/cou...-registration/

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Master Armorer/R&D at SIONICS Weapon Systems- http://sionicsweaponsystems.com

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    I put an Osprey kit on one of my ARs , it's timed right with my barrel and it has been perfect. No tilt (comes with BC), only thing I notice is a weee more wear on the carrier key.

    Some piston/ Bolt combo kits and complete rifles work better than others and wear less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Biased_Observer View Post
    I don't own one so Im certainly not a koolaid drinker but find the idea a good one for guns with suppressors, I have very mediocre results with gas guns using a can. Reliability takes a nose dive in my experience.
    I'm no expert, so wait to have this confirmed, however I'm fairly certain that a piston's place is on a 10.5" gun that simply wont stop short cycling, not necessarily a suppressed one. Here's a quote from an interview with John Noveske published on Defense Review:

    "I only run the guns with suppressors for testing when I did my comparison, and with suppressors, direct-impingement and piston-operated were both very dirty, ’cause the blowback comes to the chamber, not the gas tube." - John Noveske

    Full article: http://www.defensereview.com/noveske...view-part-one/

    I believe westcoastfrog is referring to the bolt lugs. I have *heard* of but never experienced any issues with bolt lugs on piston guns. I own an upper with a carbine-length Adams Arms system. What I've heard about bolt lugs shearing off has something to do with increased unlocking speeds and increased pressure per lug because of that. Whether or not there even is substantially increased pressure on the lugs and whether or not this pressure, if extant, would cause failure remains to be substantially evidenced as far as I know.

    Edit: Oh yeah, and if the carrier's tilting... Cant be too good for the lugs, either...

    What this thread may boil down to is that, although some piston-equipped ARs may function just fine... There's still no reason to use them over DI ARs.
    Last edited by Pax; 02-28-11 at 19:15.

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