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Thread: Can you cite specific failures of piston AR's?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sttrongbow View Post
    I hear ya, but I add: What failure mode are you introducing? I haven't seen any significant evidence of one. The AR-15 was also not designed to operate with a carbine-length gas system, and we KNOW it causes greater wear on the bolt, right? But the design has adapted over the years. Likewise, we've see the appearance of "pads" on the read of the BCG, and "anti-tilt" buffers, not terribly unlike the addition of the H buffers, extra power extractor springs, inserts, O-rings, etc.

    Still, I have yet to see any convincing evidence that it's a problem in any significant scale.

    Like any design change, you'll eliminate some problems, and introduce others. Determining whether it's a net gain or net loss in reliability requires data however.
    I am not impressed with the pads on the rear of the carrier. Seths anti tilt carrier on the other hand is a better Idea.

    There is another part of the problem which I think you may not realize. And I my self learned this from M4C thanks to Robb , Steven & Todd. I will try to explain it on a DI system the gas enters the carrier chamber pushing the carrier to the rear. What most fail to realize is that it is also pushing the bolt forward reducing the load on the locking lugs while they are disengaging from the barrel extension . You have none of that on a piston conversion the carrier is slapped to the rear as the carrier unlocks the bolt from the barrel extension. I believe that the [sorry if I got the name wrong] PWS system uses a spring to try to simulate this :/ I am not impressed with that solution neither. On modern designed ground up piston systems they have fewer number of locking lugs but they are bigger & beefier to handle this.

  2. #42
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    Piston AR's
    Add weight -
    Add more parts to the system -
    Slightly reduced accuracy compared to the DI system -
    Add more recoil -
    Both can go thousands of rounds before cleaning =
    Piston AR's use proprietary parts -
    Pistons are more abusive to the locking lugs that were original designed for a DI system -
    Pistons may be easier to clean but you do have more parts to clean now but I will give it a + [just because that is what every piston manufacture advertises]

    Sorry I don't rate being easier to clean above all the other minus's
    In fact I would put it at the bottom of my list of priorities.

    Not against piston designs I am just against shoe horning one in a AR-15.

  3. #43
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    Maybe this is a stupid idea, but why can't the piston AR manufacturers copy the Korean Daewoo K2? It seems like that's the happiest marriage of the AR receiver and AK piston system, which is what the piston AR makers are after, right?

  4. #44
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    I will consent to one exception and that's HK system its still new so I still forget about it [forgive me]. If they get it to work and hold up. Ill give those Damn German engineers credit they deserve. If it doesn't and the Germans cant get it to work right I hope to god every body finally gives up on the Idea.

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    Even the German's cannot make it work, and I love German engineering more than any other.

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    We've had our HK416's chew up a couple bolts. I am not impressed with them in general. I also must add that I am not a fan of piston conversions or redesigns in ARs period. They do seem to break parts more often than quality DI guns and I have not seen any advantages in terms of reliability. We run our guns hard. Mostly suppressed.

    Actually, we did figure out how to fix it's problems - by putting a 9" 300 BLK DI upper on it.


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    I think the HK416 is the standard pretty much. Maybe not in the US, but around the world, the HK is the only one that is actually used by several militaries around the world. That being said, people have made some negative as well as positive comments on the platform.
    Last edited by FChen17213; 03-01-11 at 14:40.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonAAC View Post
    We've had our HK416's chew up a couple bolts. I am not impressed with them in general. I also must add that I am not a fan of piston conversions or redesigns in ARs period. They do seem to break parts more often than quality DI guns and I have not seen any advantages in terms of reliability. We run our guns hard. Mostly suppressed.

    Actually, we did figure out how to fix it's problems - by putting a 9" 300 BLK DI upper on it.

    What ZEE GERMANS can't get it to work

  9. #49
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    That lower is awesome

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Glockster View Post
    Maybe this is a stupid idea, but why can't the piston AR manufacturers copy the Korean Daewoo K2? It seems like that's the happiest marriage of the AR receiver and AK piston system, which is what the piston AR makers are after, right?
    They did the Daewoo's a bit backwards. Piston on the full size guns and DI on the small ones.
    Chief Armorer for Elite Shooting Sports in Manassas VA
    Chief Armorer for Corp Arms (FFL 07-08/SOT 02)

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