Why do you care?

[Skyyr]

I presume the person reading the post is intelligent enough not to buy something they don't need or can't use. My recommendation would apply to anyone in the market for a kydex pancake holster for the G17 with light.

If you were looking for a 6004-type drop leg, you'd probably be smart enough to discount my recommendation, no?

BTW, at some point we've all got to stop posting that I've taken X classes, or shot with this or that, or I was an 11B or Recon, or whatever. Furthermore, introducing variables only convalutes the issue -- so let's presume it was someone of a known quality, like if that post had come from Robb Jensen or mark5pt56 or Detmongo or JFreuler.

From me, sure I'd need to qualify to someone who doesn't know me, but to those that do, they can usually guess that I've tried, at a minimum, the RCS and several others before I'd lay it out there for review.

Let me rephrase that, then.

The hypothetical poster in your post doesn't validate his claims. He simply says "I would recommend them to anyone [looking for this kind of holster]" In other words, if you need a Kydex, then it will work for you. It reads more like a gun rag and less like an actual review. There's no comparison of pros vs cons, no mention of what he tested it against, no condition on the recommendation; it's completely devoid of any contextual value. The only semi-valid statement made is that it suits his/her "needs," which any logical person would already assume (hence why they bought it). However, he didn't even define his needs.

Summarized, he didn't post anything that we didn't know beforehand. Therefore, what are possible types of responses?

1. You could compliment the poster, which is akin to patting someone on the back for breathing.
2. You could disagree with the poster, which is simply a matter of opinion. Again, pointless.
3. You could say nothing. I will add that most of the seasoned users will take this route, while most of the newer members (also lacking comparative posting skills) will chime in and reduce what little thread the post had to nothing ("Dude that is so cool JACK BAUER used that holster too!"). This results in a low signal to noise ratio, which goes against the mission of this forum and inevitably invokes a response along the lines of #4 or #5.
4. You could point out that the poster hasn't validated any of their claims in an attempt to gain some insight.
5. If you own the same holster, you could reply with your own objective review, however this would hijack the post from a focus on the OP to a focus on you. In addition, it can cause a direct conflict if your findings conflict with the OP.

If you're going to post at all, the only logical choices are 4 and 5. However, since the user obviously isn't articulate enough to know to validate their claims, they probably don't know how to take posts that request such information either, which almost always results in that poster getting offended and then defending their choice vehemently (see the DPMS thread for proof).

In light of that, it's much easier if original poster simply doesn't make the thread (unless he can bring something to the table) than it it to criticize those who point out the truth.

[d90king]

If they are stepping up to the plate and saying they liked their purchase, I'm letting that stand on it's own merit, more and more.

Who am I to care, or even to challenge what they bought so long as they aren't making objectively errant statements? Which is why I asked the original question in Rob's holster thread.

I simply do not care that someone is happy with their Atomic Dog, Pete's, G-code, Comptac, or other -- unless I need to get more info from them to help me buy the right thing for me. Then I ask them directly, and usually via PM.

I have a few guys I trust, and I ask them, or borrow theirs at a class and try it. Or run their gun, or sling, or grip. Or worse I buy it and try it myself, then sell it if it's not what I wanted.

Sitting behind my computer, bashing the hell out of someone for not buying what I bought....

I think I've outgrown it as of 02/28/2011.

My issue arrives more with the buyer who is happy, but then turns around and implies that the purchase he made is of the same quality and "just as good", as the product that he felt was "over priced" "lead times to long" "just paying for the name" and the typical drivel which is often heard from those who don't know any better. They dont know better because they have no experience with the company that they are saying the above about...

I don't care what holster someone else buys. I do care when they turn their purchase into a soap box to spread misinformation.

[Cincinnatus]

I suppose the most legitimate reason to care about this type of thing (what gear someone chooses for himself) is when he's a teammate or comrade like on a SWAT team, etc. and his poor choices of gear could endanger more lives than just his own--especially yours.
For example, if one of your mates in your stick has a Tasco RDS on his carbine, you might want to speak up, or a Tacstar light on his SG, examples are endless.

[SHIVAN]

In an ironic twist, I just realized that I don't care what people think on this subject either. Carry on.

[S-1]

I'm in agreement with SHIVAN. I think a lot of it has to badwagon/herd mentality. I have read some a$$hole comments on this site towards someone that obviously can't afford the latest and greatest, but is trying to do the best with what they have. This thread comes to mind... and if you notice, Trey even steps in to compliment the guy on his weapon. https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=72044

How does it hurt you that someone else prefers a SERPA over a Safariland ALS? It doesn't, but if they ask for advice on it I will give my opinion from first hand experience regarding both and that I prefer the ALS. I've seen both fail/break, but it's my opinion that Safariland makes a better product. Some guys that I work with still use the old Safariland SSIII holster, but who am I to sit there and preach to them to get the latest and greatest when they are perfectly comfortable and proficient with what they have? The same thing can be said about someones choice of weapons.

As SHIVAN said, who are you to degrade someone for their choice of equipment? Just because you take dozens of "shooting classes" a year, doesn't make you an expert regarding equipment or TTP's, nor does it make you a "serious gun user" (what is that anyway?).

[SHIVAN]

I have read some a$$hole comments on this site towards someone that obviously can't afford the latest and greatest, but is trying to do the best with what they have. This thread comes to mind... and if you notice, Trey even steps in to compliment the guy on his weapon.

To come clean, I have probably had my fair share of asshole commentary. In retrospect, it was mostly immature.

Maybe I'll be better going forward.

[S-1]

To come clean, I have probably had my fair share of asshole commentary. In retrospect, it was mostly immature.

Maybe I'll be better going forward.

Everybody has made posts with an arrogant or asshole tone, but there are a few that are allowed to do it constantly. From what I can gather, the main culprits are "collectors" or "serious gun users/training junkies", not the SME's on the board.

I often wonder what goes through their heads to make them think that they are above others.

[rob_s]

A post in this thread has some parallels to this one.

There's two different tracks some people take with handing out advice.

The one is simply to take the person at face value and answer the question as stated. Examples would be:
Q: Which would you rather have a Bushmaster or an Olympic Arms?
A: The Bushmaster is the better firearm.

Q: What is the most accurate 5.56 ammo in your 16" stainless steel barrel: Black Hills 75 or 77 grain?
A: Black Hills 77 grain. By 0.1 MOA.


The other is to try to intuit what the person really wants, or what you think they should want, and answer the question that way.
Q: Which would you rather have a Bushmaster or an Olympic Arms?
A: Neither. Get the Noveske N4. It's a much better rifle than either one.

Q: What is the most accurate 5.56 ammo in your 16" stainless steel barrel: Black Hills 75 or 77 grain?
A: Rather than concern yourself with what is at best a 0.1 MOA difference, you should be focusing on training and improving your ability to hit the target. Either of those ammo choices are more accurate than 99% of shooters.


In the context of this thread, some people assume an automatic need for the second type of response. That's probably not correct, and something I default to myself, but do try to resist most of the time. Just not very successfully.

I understand that there is a difference between asking for advice and posting an opinion, but people have to understand that posting an opinion to begin with is opening up the floor to others posting theirs, and their opinion of your opinion, and be prepared for the eventuality that they are in the minority and not the majority.

It's unfortunate to see the behavior in the Bushmaster thread linked to above, but the OP also could have saved himself a little grief with a slightly better word choice in the thread title. Is that kind of like blaming the rape victim for dressing too provocatively? Maybe. But there's reality and then there's "fair".

[rob_s]

From what I can gather, the main culprits are "collectors" or "serious gun users/training junkies", not the SME's on the board.

would it matter which group it came from?

With a little searching over the last week, I can see who I think you're talking about (hell, you may mean me too).

[Watrdawg]

I'm glad this came up. I've noticed this type of commentary in quite a few threads. Especially when someone builds or buys their first weapon. If it's not one of the favored weapons here that person is trashed pretty quick. Same thing with other gear. It happens almost daily. I've been on this site less than a year and have pretty much figured out whose opinion means much. Those people usually aren't the ones who go straight to bashing someone with the first words that are typed into a thread. They will usually steer a person in the right direction and give them objective straight forward advice. No sugar coating and on the other hand they do not call you an ignorant tarded asshole either.

Personally I don't care one bit what and who a person purchases from. If a person makes what someone here would consider a bad purchase and likes what he bought and praises it's qualities then fine that is that persons opinion. If the object really is a total piece of crap and what the person is saying about it is really out in left field then steer that person to info that may change his mind. Correct him immediately if what he is saying is a danger to himself and others. If the gear is the best he can do at this time then say, while not the best piece of kit available under your circumstances it will do for now. Start saving your money for something along the lines of ... There aren't many people out there that can afford to throw down $1000 or more for a decent 1-4 optic or even $400-500 for a RDS.

Thanks to this site I was able to help a buddy from wasting his money on an average weapon when for the same price he could purchase a much better quality weapon. I showed him the site and various sticky's to read then we discussed various "SPEC" weapons and searched for the best prices. I also advised him to become a member of the site because of the vast wealth of info here. That came with a bit of a warning though. I told him that this site is a no nonsense site that has a membership mostly made up of professionals who know what they are talking about. The tone on the site can be a bit harsh and sometimes very opinionated. However, there are quite a few people here that he will be able to gleen information from that in any other circumstance he wouldn't have that opportunity. The wealth and quality of information here is unbelievable!