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Thread: Triggers -- single stage or two-stage?

  1. #11
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    I prefer a single stage trigger but I have learned to shoot almost as quickly/accurately with a two stage very recently.

    My problem is that I shoot my rifles off reset like with my pistols over the years. I have become accustomed to this system and it works extremely well for me and my needs.

    Instead of shooting off reset with the two stage trigger on my AR I have recently tried something different instead of trying to shoot off reset.

    I Don't pull through the first stage and then stop at the wall any more with 2 stage triggers. I pull straight through consistently. Upon reset I now let the trigger out all the way instead of searching for that reset point like with pistols. This equals a much longer reset but I think if I train with it enough I will eventually be just as quick/accurate with this as I am with single stage triggers.

    The trick for me was letting out all the way and then pulling straight through with this two stage trigger. I might go back to a single stage trigger eventually I am still undecided.

    The best single stage trigger I have shot has got to be the Wilson TTU. The only problem is that when I first started shooting this SA trigger I was getting doubles/triples with one trigger pull when shooting hammer pairs.


    What was really happening was that since the reset was so short and the trigger was 3.5LBS upon reset I would inadvertently pull the trigger again due to my finger letting the trigger out to that reset point (like with the glock trigger).

    When you fire and the rifle pushes softly upon your shoulder it moves back a little. After that it moves forward again and I think it was at that point it would go off again very quickly when trying to shoot fast hammer pairs.

    With slow fire/normal shooting strings I would never notice this issue with the TTU. After figuring out that issue I can't even begin to describe how fast and fun the TTU was. If only it had a slightly longer reset and maybe was about 4.5-5.0LBS.

    I worked that out but it can still happen with a light weight SA trigger with such a short reset. Hope this helps.
    Last edited by og556; 03-02-11 at 13:13.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
    thanks MW. great discussion of factors affecting performance.

    how do you prefer to shoot rapidfire - do you shoot reset like a pistol shooter, or are you more of a trigger slapper?

    I notice a distinct difference not just in take-up and let-off between my single and 2-stage triggers but it also feels like there is a 2-stage reset. it doesn't bother me but it's something I notice.

    I don't have enough time with a 2-stage yet to determine if it's/I'm slower with it or not.
    My rapid fire experience is limited to Service Rifle. I have not taken a carbine class, nor have I shot 3 gun. My rapid fire is deliberate and slow in comparison. The reason I like a short reset is I prefer to let up just until the trigger resets. I'm not a "slapper" and keep contact with the trigger. However, if I'm too careful with the trigger it could lead to doubling. This has happened with my Garand and M14.

    However, when taking rapid shots at running jackrabbits, I cannot tell you just what I'm doing with the trigger as I tend to focus entirely on the jackrabbit and my shooting habits- good and bad- simply take over. What I can tell you, is when I get serious about hitting, I shoot slower and take fewer shots than when I'm just shooting at the jackrabbits for fun. That's not to say jackrabbit hunting is the same as fighting. Jackrabbits don't shoot back
    Last edited by MistWolf; 03-02-11 at 16:28.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by og556 View Post
    This equals a much longer reset but I think if I train with it enough I will eventually be just as quick/accurate with this as I am with single stage triggers.
    In theory how can this be possible. You're talking about moving your finger more to reset the trigger. Moving farther always takes more time than moving a shorter distance. This is the whole premiss behind people paying big money for trigger jobs on pistols for a shorter reset. Less movement equals faster shots. So in theory your splits would be longer if you have to operate your trigger farther.

    In actuality your splits may be .14 for a single stage with a short reset and .15 for a 2-Stage with a long reset. Is that going to make a difference in reality, I would doubt it. But I don't think we can say that moving father is just as fast as moving less. It just can't be.

  4. #14
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    I prefer 2 stage.



    For precision shooting I like the stop between the 1st and 2nd stage. I don't like one drawn out pull where the gun is going to go off "somewhere" through the pull. A 2 stage lets you know exactly where its going to break.

    For doing drills the trigger is pressed quickly enough it feels like a single stage since you don't feel the stop between stages.

    As far as reliability I have been using 2 stages (KAC and Geissele) almost exclusively for the past few years. Never had one break, and many of mine have several thousand rounds through them with one being over 14k rounds. I just replaced that one with a Geissele SD3G coming from a KAC. Something like an SSA doesn't have any more parts in it than a USGI single stage. A KAC does have more parts as does the Hi-Speed line like the DMR. However those triggers also have a very high rate of reliability. No issues in mine in about 5k rounds.

    Based on the experience I have with the above triggers Id venture to say they are just as reliable as any USGI type single stage, and probably more reliable than the iffy brands like DPMS which Ive heard numerous people complain about trigger pins breaking. Geissele uses very high quality pins, and Ive never heard of one breaking. Both the KAC and DMR have seen use in military guns as has the SSF (FA version of the SSA).

    Very light single stages are used on bench rest guns but I don't think that is applicable to AR's since we aren't using triggers measured in ounces while shooting 15lb+ guns using all kinds of crazy rests to support the rifle. They aren't used in HD/duty/mil applications, either.


    If all you are doing is drills and plinking Id just stick with a quality USGI type single stage. There are some higher end single stages out there like the Wilson but I have zero experience with that trigger.


    Whatever trigger you do go with make sure its fit for what you intend to use it for. I would stay away from the RR triggers, ones that are very light (less than 3.5lbs). My preference is around 4.5-5lbs for a carbine and about 3.5-4.5 for a precision gun. The DMR is adjustable but I left mine stock and it sits at 3.5.

  5. #15
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    Single Stage for combat, thats what the military uses. Two stage for competition and hunting.

    But it's all personnel preference

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridajpr View Post
    Single Stage for combat, thats what the military uses. Two stage for competition and hunting.

    But it's all personnel preference
    It's personal preference, but the single stage is a good trigger and what most folks prefer for competition and hunting while the 2 stage was designed for combat. I'm not sure why military AR triggers are single stage unless it has something to do with the select fire option.

    AR shooters on this site are the only ones I know that have cleaner breaks from two stage triggers than they do with single stage triggers!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridajpr View Post
    Single Stage for combat, thats what the military uses. Two stage for competition and hunting.

    But it's all personnel preference



    The military has used the Geissele SSF, DMR, and KAC triggers in AR platforms. The Garand also uses a 2 stage trigger.



    The USGI M16 trigger is the exception to military triggers NOT being 2 stages.



    Im not sure why people have latched onto the commercial USGI single stages as being the end all be all triggers. They aren't even the same as issue FA trigger groups.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    The military has used the Geissele SSF, DMR, and KAC triggers in AR platforms. The Garand also uses a 2 stage trigger.



    The USGI M16 trigger is the exception to military triggers NOT being 2 stages.



    Im not sure why people have latched onto the commercial USGI single stages as being the end all be all triggers. They aren't even the same as issue FA trigger groups.
    They sure feel the same as the many M16 triggers that I handled in the military and the only military people who use the 2 stage triggers are the Special Ops groups and the very few that can afford to buy their own.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by floridajpr View Post
    They sure feel the same as the many M16 triggers that I handled in the military and the only military people who use the 2 stage triggers are the Special Ops groups and the very few that can afford to buy their own.



    No the Mk12's have 2 stage triggers in them which are in common use with infantry batt's. Also the DMR guns in use by the Army.


    The issue trigger with the 3 round burst cam adds a lot of parts and feel to the trigger.


    Prior to the M16 there was the M14, M1, and M1903 which all used 2 stage triggers. The basic issue M16 is the only single stage trigger rifle that I know in use for the last 100 years. I may be wrong but in the last 100 years we've had the M16/M4, M14, M1, and M1903. Only one of them have used a single stage and not in the variants like the the DMR, Mk12, and SOPMOD B2.

  10. #20
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    Hmmm.... I always thought 1 stage triggers were for a hd/patrol rifle ETC. While 2 stage was for competition/precision rifles? It's all user preference but, it seems to be the other way around here...

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