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Thread: Status of NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4-pattern carbines

  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    Release the hounds! Let 'em have it! How long have they kept you waiting?
    Thankfully this time around I'm keeping very good records. In one case we're on to two months, and then I hear that the guy that was helping me is no longer with the company!

  2. #262
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    Put those companies in the chart too, except put no info divulged or some such wording in the areas they gave you the runaround on. Then place them in the appropriate section of the chart. If the afflicted manufacturers don't like it, they can come clean or possibly lose sales.

    The public shouldn't be left in the dark about the companies that seem to want to hide something.

    Will you get flak for it, Yes. But doing so will allow people to make more informed decisions.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    With the runaround I'm getting from some of the name makers, I'm strongly considering releasing the new version as-is with only 8 respondents. I think the resistance by some of these guys speaks volumes.
    Rob, I would recommend releasing the updated chart with the info that you have now, and noting on the chart which folks didn't respond to your request for info.

    There may be some folks who are deliberating not providing you with info. If that's the case, then they get their way if you continue to wait until you have their info (which may never happen).

    Those folks who through an oversight have not responded can get included in the next periodic update.

    Those folks who responded to you in a timely manner ( I assume all on the left side) get rewarded by you releasing the chart now instead of waiting longer, because their info gets seen by folks more quickly than if you wait on others.

    Folks who want to see the data to inform buying decisions, etc, get to see the updated data more quickly if you release now rather than waiting.

    I'm sure there are numerous factors involved in your decision about when to release the update of which I am unaware. But from my limited perspective, I see no reason to wait.
    Last edited by oldtexan; 04-25-11 at 22:12.

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    With the runaround I'm getting from some of the name makers, I'm strongly considering releasing the new version as-is with only 8 respondents. I think the resistance by some of these guys speaks volumes.
    8 is a lot. Most people can't even name 8 different manufacturers. It seems that you were patient and allowed for a reasonable response time from these guys. How long does it take to answer the simple questions you are asking anyway??? I would respectfully agree with the others who said that some fair wording can be used to notate they were given x amount of time and have yet to respond. It is an evolving document anyway.

    Let me ask you this Rob....Are you wanting input from us regarding a feature of a manufacturer we may own or are you wanting to stick with company answers only? Just curious and it may help to avoid those "well DPMS has properly staked carriers" posts if they are not the method in which you want to use to add data. Or will there be a process as to how you want to handle that stuff? THANKS FOR THE CHART BROTHER!!!

  5. #265
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    I think I'll try to make progress on the new write-up this weekend, and push out a few more tickler emails, and try to get at least the first run of the Chart out week after next.

    RE: the role of the consumer, yes eventually I'll be looking for discussion on known issues from those with first-hand knowledge. "Trust but verify." I'm just not 100% certain of the method I'll use.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by walter34payton2002 View Post
    8 is a lot. Most people can't even name 8 different manufacturers. It seems that you were patient and allowed for a reasonable response time from these guys. How long does it take to answer the simple questions you are asking anyway??? I would respectfully agree with the others who said that some fair wording can be used to notate they were given x amount of time and have yet to respond...
    Possibly, they (some, anyway) don't look at rob_s as anyone they have to or need to respond to. They may well look at this as nothing but a chance for criticism of them, no matter what they answer. And they might view it as "Who is this guy, anyway ?"
    We may like "The Chart" and view it as helpful, wonderful or the last word or whatever but if you are "in the business" you may be more than skeptical of it and it's author.
    Last edited by wetidlerjr; 04-26-11 at 08:25.

    Bill Tidler Jr.
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  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by wetidlerjr View Post
    Possibly, they (some, anyway) don't look at rob_s as anyone they have to or need to respond to. They may well look at this as nothing but a chance for criticism of them, no matter what they answer. And they might view it as "Who is this guy, anyway ?"
    We may like "The Chart" and view it as helpful, wonderful or the last word or whatever but if you are "in the business" you may be more than skeptical of it and it's author.
    I suspect that's a large part of it. Some have seen it as an opportunity to "set the record straight", while others have apparently seen it as something to hide from. Telling, IMO. Interesting to note, however, that to date nobody has said "Chart, what Chart?" and most have commented quite the opposite. Some newer manufacturers have even sought me out to ask to be included.

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I suspect that's a large part of it. Some have seen it as an opportunity to "set the record straight", while others have apparently seen it as something to hide from. Telling, IMO. Interesting to note, however, that to date nobody has said "Chart, what Chart?" and most have commented quite the opposite. Some newer manufacturers have even sought me out to ask to be included.
    Including the "no response" people with "No Response" under their names would tell me something for sure.

    Bill Tidler Jr.
    **************

    ...We have long maintained that the only accessories that a 1911 needs are a trigger you can manage, sights that you can see, and a dehorning job. That still goes.
    ~Jeff Cooper

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by wetidlerjr View Post
    Possibly, they (some, anyway) don't look at rob_s as anyone they have to or need to respond to. They may well look at this as nothing but a chance for criticism of them, no matter what they answer. And they might view it as "Who is this guy, anyway ?"
    We may like "The Chart" and view it as helpful, wonderful or the last word or whatever but if you are "in the business" you may be more than skeptical of it and it's author.
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I suspect that's a large part of it. Some have seen it as an opportunity to "set the record straight", while others have apparently seen it as something to hide from. Telling, IMO. Interesting to note, however, that to date nobody has said "Chart, what Chart?" and most have commented quite the opposite. Some newer manufacturers have even sought me out to ask to be included.
    There is no question as to what "The Chart" and who it's author is. Both have been the topic of extensive conversation and frustration in a variety of board rooms and offices.

    Getting manufacturers to commit to a response can be a neat trick sometimes. Narrowing them down to a "Y/N" or a check mark can be like pulling teeth. Undoubtedly, some are wrangling words and splitting hairs in formulating a response.
    2012 National Zumba Endurance Champion
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  10. #270
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    Making the lesser manufacturers' nervous enough to upgrade their product is what it's all about IMHO.

    One reason I don't like the civilian-legal AK's you can buy is that there is no standard for manufacture or building (with a couple of exceptions). This is mostly due to the US made compliance parts that are installed with legality being the only criteria. Most people are buying junk and don't even know it.

    If the Chart shames some people into making better rifles, then more power to it!
    Last edited by Doc Safari; 04-26-11 at 10:30.

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