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Thread: Status of NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4-pattern carbines

  1. #281
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    Denting the sides of the gas key no more yields staking than using a dremel on a lower gives it M4 feed ramps.

    This is my fear with the new chart. Manufacturers who half-ass things will get put on the chart as passable. Is the new chart going to have a reported vs. observed section?

  2. #282
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    The intent is to take a "trust, but verify" approach. How that will happen is still in the works. There are numerous possibilities, from adding a column to each criteria so that it can be user verified, to adding footnotes or astrices to the suspect answers, to color coding the answer to communicate confirmed, suspect, refuted. Could be green, yellow, red in that order.

    I think that once you guys see the content you'll see that without outright lying there are very few places where a manufacturer can be misleading. Yes, they can claim barrel steel they don't really use, testing that they don't really do, etc. but that could easily come back to haunt them. The staking issue, as with the feedramp issue (and even this I've tried to mitigate) there is only so much to be done because, while it may be clear to us what's right and what's wrong, it is always going to be seen as subjective and there are too many variables (like the screw head size that Grant mentions).

  3. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    Staked? Yes. Staked well? Not so much.


    C4
    Amen. The staking on my DPMS looks more like light primer strikes. Count me as one of those who was blissfully ignorant while putting together my first AR. I spent about $700. It does a great job harassing the whistle pigs but I will be much more thoughtful on the next one!

    When I decide to sell my current rifle I will use Rob's chart to help me be open and honest about what I am selling. (A decent range toy and nothing more) Thanks for the chart Rob!!

  4. #284
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    DPMS thread on staking

    Maybe I'm completely wrong here or confused, but DPMS stated in that thread they torqued the screws to milspec's 35 inch pounds, but I thought it called for them to be torqued at 56 inch pounds, or something like that.

    Am I wrong about what the milspec says? Did I miss the humor in their post?

    Doesn't matter to me either way as I won't be rushing out to buy a DPMS now, just curious.

    ETA - I see 35 is mil spec, but many stake between 55 to 60. I think
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 04-27-11 at 18:36.

  5. #285
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    DPMS Chart?

    I think this thread is even more of a direct response to "the chart" than the one Grant linked to. They have even have a chart of their own.

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=30&t=157433

    Their explanations are very artful in the way that they address some requirements in a partial manner, and completely ignor others.
    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
    Abraham Lincoln

  6. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Maybe I'm completely wrong here or confused, but DPMS stated in that thread they torqued the screws to milspec's 35 inch pounds, but I thought it called for them to be torqued at 56 inch pounds, or something like that.

    Am I wrong about what the milspec says? Did I miss the humor in their post?

    Doesn't matter to me either way as I won't be rushing out to buy a DPMS now, just curious.

    ETA - I see 35 is mil spec, but many stake between 55 to 60. I think
    I use high quality Torx bolts. This allows me to up the torque value.



    C4

  7. #287
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    Correctly staked my ass.

    B.A.S. Mechanical Engineering Technology

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Maybe I'm completely wrong here or confused, but DPMS stated in that thread they torqued the screws to milspec's 35 inch pounds, but I thought it called for them to be torqued at 56 inch pounds, or something like that.

    Am I wrong about what the milspec says? Did I miss the humor in their post?

    Doesn't matter to me either way as I won't be rushing out to buy a DPMS now, just curious.

    ETA - I see 35 is mil spec, but many stake between 55 to 60. I think
    Specs are known to change from time to time, but the most current TM reference I have (ARMY TM 9-1005-319-23&P Change 1-8) indicates 50 to 58 inch-pounds.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Specs are known to change from time to time, but the most current TM reference I have (ARMY TM 9-1005-319-23&P Change 1-8) indicates 50 to 58 inch-pounds.

    This discussion makes me think that the Forum should have a thread or chart of all the torques recommended, as well as dimensions of holes and other critical dimensions since some specs seem to change from time to time. Similar to rob_s's chart.
    former cat herder

  10. #290
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    The problems with DPMS guns extend beyond whether or not they are "mil-spec". A dealer tried to foist one on me this weekend, and when I pulled the charging handle back to check the chamber, I swear it felt like someone had dumped sand into the upper receiver. I worked the action several times, and the gritty scraping sound made me cringe.

    "We've been selling them like hotcakes!" he said. "I'll let you have it for $750 out the door!"

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