Page 6 of 42 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 416

Thread: Status of NEW Comparison Chart of Commercial M4-pattern carbines

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    33
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Oh, either way there will be drama.

    The old way people were mad that their pet brand didn't get a fair shake. The new way, people will accuse every maker they don't like of lying. So I am, of course, going to do whatever I want in the end.

    Interestingly, in an article last year in a print magazine I talked about "your AR ain't milspec" and listed some of the more common reasons this was true. In the online comments section of the publisher's website, someone asked for a way to know which manufacturers meet which criteria. Guy was asking for the Chart and he didn't even know it.
    To me, the o'l chart is like looking at a 1990's addition of consumer reports about computers. Some brands need to be listed and upgraded and there should be updates for the lazy ones who don't want to call every manufacture and have them send a copy of doc's. Hopefully this will also help the other lazy ones who always point people to the chart as gospel.

    For instance Del-ton is now MP testing bolts and soon barrels.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis MO
    Posts
    62
    Feedback Score
    0
    Thanks for the work in updating the chart as over the years with new models and what not something has had to deviate. I am sure its no easy undertaking.

    Its a good tool, a lot of solid information on parts description/meaning for a newb like myself. I have been looking at it as I plan to build another AR in the next few years and my cheap arse is always balancing value/needs/requirements at least I can educate myself on what parts are what and if those parts are mil-spec...or what mil-spec even is.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    210
    Feedback Score
    0
    I tend to look at it this way:
    (overly generalized)

    American shopping culture (100%)

    50% Group: Have money to buy things they like, in this case for example, an M4. They like what they see, they buy it, play around with it for a while (months to a couple of years) and then they move on to something else because people change. - "Bushmaster looks cool with lights and grips and...! $$$"

    30% Group: They are into firearms collecting and shooting (maybe a family thing, inheritance) and want a product that wont break the 10-15 times they shoot it a year. They have weapon(s) for home defense; they may have taken classes to be in line with proper deployment/legal issues. May go hunting or plinking once in a blue moon. - Do some research, but stick to buddies opinions at the gunshop/range.

    15% Group: Consider shooting/training as a main hobby and want good and affordable brands out there to support their extracurricular activities. - Do fairly good amount of surface research.

    5% Group: Active/Retired/Disabled LEO and Military who love the challenge of tactical fighting and training. They are familiar with weapons and their use, have combat/street experience. Also consider Home Defense a very serious deal and train continuously for it. Competitive shooters/trainers who require nothing but the best in equipment and do extensive research to promote education and accuracy of information to be as wide spread as possible (at least in their community).

    The more the overall consumer base (100%) is informed, the higher the overall quality of the products coming from manufacturers.

    For example grocery stores: most of the products you find in the average grocery store are not created by the producers in an input vacuum. On the contrary, most of the products are driven by demand and consumer feedback. There is surprisingly very little that a producer has to do to maintain a good selling product, aside from marketing and little tweaks that stay within the buffer zone of profits generated by the product. New products only last when the producer bases it's info on feedback and trends in consumption.

    The Chart is very valuable because in the end (as already described by some posts on this thread) the information in it does trickle down to the 30% - 50% range, though this may take years to do so. This range may possibly contribute the most to the profit margins of the gun industry, therefore their demands can sometimes (though not at all times) usurp the needs of the 15% - 5% group.

    This is why rob_s and his chart updating is important to the entire consumer base, regardless of the motivations of the consumer (be it 50% or 5%).
    "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    58
    Feedback Score
    0
    Thanks for the chart Rob. You brought to light things I never considered nor thought were important.

    Then again I'm not a LEO or operator so what do I really need anyway?. The crappiest brand on your list is good enough for 80 percent of the gun board lurkers and members.

    Most AR owners in this world own as a hobby and will never be in a situation where most of the items on your list matter one bit.

    So like you say. Those that know and need a top shelf AR already know and don't need your chart. Everyone else..... Well. I'm just saying.
    FFL Dealer
    NRA Pistol and Rifle Instructor

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    312
    Feedback Score
    0
    I always found the chart useful. It helps a person gain knowledge that they might not have known they needed to know.

    The chart probably has helped some AR manufactures to become better at making their guns.

    The chart can be a bad idea though when people get bent out of shape over it though.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    940
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by LRB45 View Post

    The chart can be a bad idea though when people get bent out of shape over it though.
    That's a problem with the people, not the chart. In my opinion, the publishing of data shouldn't be driven by how less than rational people may respond to it.
    "I have your number. Consider yourself warned."

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    312
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by opmike View Post
    That's a problem with the people, not the chart. In my opinion, the publishing of data shouldn't be driven by how less than rational people may respond to it.
    Yeah that's what I was getting at, should have highlighted "people" in my post.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,148
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    I think I found one more reason to pursue the revisions, and get the new version up.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    32
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by VaeVictis View Post
    The way I see it is, a lot of people don't get a chance to hold many of these brands before they can make a purchase. Where I live most of the stores carry RRA, Bushmaster, and Colt, and if you ask the people at the gun shops they'll tell you the RRA is just as good as the Colt.
    If I hadn't found this site I most likely would never had heard of brands like Noveske, Daniel Defense, and Bravo Company, but thanks to this site and the chart I now own a Noveske rather than one of the many RRA's that were being pushed on me.

    So I wouldn't take these requests for brands as any sort of laziness or fan boy syndrome, it's just that many people have come to respect both you and M4carbine.net and see your input as invaluable information.
    This is where I feel i fall into. I have a local shop that i trust. I have Never really seen any other brands other then the ones on the shelves. I was told brand X was a good bang for your buck brand. I had owned a brand Y before and explained this. So after a brief discussion i bought brand X. I start looking up for accesoris and run across this website. Now i am reading that brand X is a POS in most peoples eyes. I don't feel that it is true. Mostly cause i still don't have it yet to hold and shoot. Once I do I'm sure I will be happy with its performance. But I don't understand the need for some people to write If people are too lazy to research we should forget about them. That is extremely biased opinion. I would love to fix the issues with my AR when it comes in. But I don't want to hear people saying that I was too lazy to go out and research. alot of people don't know about the brands out there that aren't mass published by the gun shops. I would like to see and even feel like this is more of a learning experience. I'm sure there are things that alot of us on here can do that another cant. Or alot of knowledge that one person may have about one thing more then the other. That being said company's learn from there mistakes. They listen to the consumer. And they fix problems with there product. I am glad to see the Rob_S is redoing this list. So i can be an informed person as well as the next person to come onto this website. I hope people can understand what I'm trying to say here.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    SE FL
    Posts
    14,148
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by primewish View Post
    This is where I feel i fall into. I have a local shop that i trust. I have Never really seen any other brands other then the ones on the shelves. I was told brand X was a good bang for your buck brand. I had owned a brand Y before and explained this. So after a brief discussion i bought brand X.
    This is a phenomena that frankly baffles me. Why would anyone take the word of someone trying to sell them something? Even if the person behind the counter is honestly trying to get you what they believe to be the best product out there, how do they know? What qualifications do they have? What research do they do? How much actual shooting do they do? Is it the kind of shooting that you do?

    If nothing else I think I am going to have to re-publish the Chart when it's done simply as an acknowledgment that people are lazy at worst, ignorant at best, just to counter-act the gunshop salesman dis-information express.

Page 6 of 42 FirstFirst ... 4567816 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •