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Thread: Vltor A5 EMOD on a 14.5" middy???

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
    I'll second that motion. seeing as the 14.5 mid swings toward the "soft shooting" end of the spectrum away from reliability, I wouldn't understand the purpose of an A5 on this configuration.

    likewise, I also don't understand the modern compulsion for a "soft shooting" 5.56. it can't be the harsh recoil - if it is, there are smaller calibers you know...

    so it must be recoil control in rapid fire. to this end I would sooner add a muzzle brake or a compensator or some other device that tames muzzle movement rather than something that affects reliability...
    Please don't infer that one is trying to tame a harsh recoiling beast with these maneuvers. The ar15 in it's various guises is far from that.
    The reason I did the above mentioned trial was that I had bought this boutique training ammo from ASYM, which did not function at all in the mid length AR with the A5 system and the regular buffer. The latter worked perfectly with Fiocchi ammo, but ASYM ammo is more accurate than Fiocchi and I may use it for classes. It works great in carbine length ar's, even with the regular A5.
    IMHO the ASYM ammo , middy gas system, and the lighter modded A5 buffers afford the most control in a rapid fire scenario.
    That doesn't mean I am about to ditch my 11.5 carbine systems shooting full throttle XM 193.

  2. #32
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    Question Newb question

    I'm pretty much a newb about all of this.

    I want to build a 14.5" Middy (Spike's Tactical optimum profile) with a pinned flash hider. Not a compensator / brake.

    There are so many possible buffer setups... rifle/carbine tubes, springs, buffer weights.

    Should I go with a Vltor A5 or a Spike's tungsten powder carbine buffer?

  3. #33
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    The Spikes powdered buffer is largely regarded as snake oil around here. There are a few videos on YouTube which were posted by a forum member and it's shows to be less effective than a standard H buffer.

    On the other hand, there are quite a few people here who love the A5. I don't think it did anything miraculous for my rifle, but YMMV.

    I'm just running a standard Vltor receiver extension with a Sprinco white spring and a H buffer. I've started playing around with just a standard carbine buffer as well.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    The Spikes powdered buffer is largely regarded as snake oil around here. There are a few videos on YouTube which were posted by a forum member and it's shows to be less effective than a standard H buffer.
    I am amazed at the conclusion that was drawn from watching those videos.

    IIRC, the buffers tested were an H, H2, H3(?) and a Spikes.

    All the buffers tested that were heavier than the H buffer exhibited bolt bounce. This would make me conclude that there is a mass issue, but the I want to hang with the cool kids crowd came up with the Spike's buffer is snake oil.

    FWIW, BCM sells the Spike's buffer on there sight, describing it as "This buffer is one of the softest shooting, smoothest and quietest buffers on the market not to mention it looks awesome."

    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    On the other hand, there are quite a few people here who love the A5. I don't think it did anything miraculous for my rifle, but YMMV.
    I put it on my rifle and was not impressed either, personally I think the recoil feels harsher. I did buy the heavier buffer but have not had a chance to try it yet.
    Last edited by EzGoingKev; 08-06-11 at 18:20.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp43 View Post
    Please don't infer that one is trying to tame a harsh recoiling beast with these maneuvers. The ar15 in it's various guises is far from that.
    The reason I did the above mentioned trial was that I had bought this boutique training ammo from ASYM, which did not function at all in the mid length AR with the A5 system and the regular buffer. The latter worked perfectly with Fiocchi ammo, but ASYM ammo is more accurate than Fiocchi and I may use it for classes. It works great in carbine length ar's, even with the regular A5.
    IMHO the ASYM ammo , middy gas system, and the lighter modded A5 buffers afford the most control in a rapid fire scenario.
    That doesn't mean I am about to ditch my 11.5 carbine systems shooting full throttle XM 193.
    I wasn't trying to infer anything, at least not to any individual in particular.

    I was trying to show that there is always a trend, a fad, a flavor-of-the-month that a certain type of individual reads about and then without testing for themselves, assumes that if a little of something is good, a LOT of that something is gooder...

    laying aside discussions of buffers, springs, gas port size, going from a carbine length to midlength is good for a 16" rifle.
    going from 16" to 14.5" with carbine gas is good.
    so some people take this to mean that 14.5" midlength is gooder.
    and that throwing a heavier buffer and/or spring in there is even gooderest yet!

    I'm not saying it doesn't work - there are many obvious examples where it does. but understanding the compromises in regard to ammo, and buffer and spring combinations, I believe it can be said the the 14.5" swings the pendulum away from the center of the zone of operating performance toward the less reliable end.

    no setup is the wrong setup if you understand the forces and issues involved and take steps to ensure reliability. but how many people do you think are out there running a 14.5 middy with some combination of spring and buffer that they saw kewl pics of on the internet, and are totally bewildered when their gun won't cycle low power ammo?
    Last edited by ra2bach; 08-06-11 at 17:21.
    never push a wrench...

  6. #36
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    I've wanted to say that for awhile but figured everyone would get all riled up. Anything that makes a gun less ammo-compatible is bad in my book.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

  7. #37
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    I've wanted to say that for awhile but figured everyone would get all riled up. Anything that makes a gun less ammo-compatible is bad in my book.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by EzGoingKev View Post
    I am amazed at the conclusion that was drawn from watching those videos.

    IIRC, the buffers tested were an H, H2, H3(?) and a Spikes.

    [b]All[/] the buffers tested that were heavier than the H buffer exhibited bolt bounce. This would make me conclude that there is a mass issue, but the I want to hang with the cool kids crowd came up with the Spike's buffer is snake oil.

    FWIW, BCM sells the Spike's buffer on there sight, describing it as "This buffer is one of the softest shooting, smoothest and quietest buffers on the market not to mention it looks awesome."


    I put it on my rifle and was not impressed either, personally I think the recoil feels harsher. I did buy the heavier buffer but have not had a chance to try it yet.
    It's comical how many threads are here where the user writes of feed/extraction/locking problems et al and always....somehow...a spikes buffer is involved.

    BCM sells a lot of things. I don't want many of them in or on my gun.

    I think they have grip-pods on there and a really nice Double Star rail.

    As to BCMs description...

    This buffer is one of the softest shooting, smoothest and quietest buffers on the market not to mention it looks awesome. It doesn't have any weights to move around or fluids to leak out, it's 100% maintenance free!

    It weighs in at 4.3oz. (Depending on the density and size of the HDTP, the weight can vary slightly.)

    It's CNC machined from Solid Billet Aluminum Bar Stock.

    It's Anodized Matte Black and Laser engraved with Spike's Logo.

    So you're probably wondering what's inside to make this thing so great and different?

    Each buffer is filled with HDTP "High Density Tungsten Powder" so there is No reciprocating weights inside to make a lot of noise. It also makes for a Very Smooth cycling rifle. It eliminates the chance of bolt bounce and muzzle rise in full-auto. It also cuts down on Felt Recoil. It's a HUGE upgrade from a Standard Carbine buffer! It's designed for .223/5.56 but it works in all Calibers!

    After its filled with HDTP it's topped off with a mil spec bumper!
    I now direct your attention to the description given on Spike's website....

    Looking for a heavy buffer to replace your standard carbine buffer? Well, we came up with something that offers the HIGHEST performance at a reasonable price. The ST-T2 buffer is one of the softest shooting, smoothest, and quietest buffers on the market; not to mention it looks awesome! It doesn't have any weights to move around or fluids to leak out like some other buffers, so it's 100% maintenance free!

    The ST-T2 buffer weighs in at 117g/4.1oz. (Depending on the density and size of the HDTP, the weight can vary slightly) and the body is CNC machined from solid billet Aluminum bar stock for strength and durability. To finish it all off, it's Anodized matte black and laser engraved with our Logo.

    So you're probably wondering what's inside of this thing to make this thing so great and different?

    Each ST-T2 buffer is filled with HDTP which is short for "High Density Tungsten Powder" and topped off with a Mil-Spec bumper. Because of this, there aren’t any reciprocating weights inside to make a lot of noise and it also makes for a very smooth cycling rifle. The ST-T2 eliminates the chance of bolt bounce, helps with muzzle rise when firing in full-auto, and cuts down on felt recoil. As you can tell, it's a HUGE upgrade from a Standard Carbine buffer! It's designed for .223/5.56 but it works in all Calibers!

    Get one for your AR-15 today and feel the difference!

    NOTE: Actual weight can vary between 4.0oz and 4.2oz.
    That's what you call a "cut and paste".

    I've fallen victim to this too, the mythical quest to eliminate recoil by changing the gun's configuration. Buffers aren't the way to do it. Changing the gas system is, but it is also the most expensive and most difficult to do.

    The lightest recoil i've ever gotten out of an AR15 was with my current, with a 16" SS barrel with an intermediate gas system with a H or carbine buffer and a Sprinco white spring. Making the recoiling system heavier doesn't reduce recoil, because all that extra mass is still slamming forward.
    Last edited by bp7178; 08-06-11 at 19:32.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bp7178 View Post
    It's comical how many threads are here where the user writes of feed/extraction/locking problems et al and always....somehow...a spikes buffer is involved. And what is the first peice of advice given...switch out the buffer. Between your smart ass swipes i'm surprised you didn't see that.
    I must have missed them all, would you please post some links for me?

    I would love to see all the scientific testing used to pinpoint that it was specifically the design of the Spike's buffer itself and not the weight of the buffer.
    Last edited by EzGoingKev; 08-06-11 at 19:26.

  10. #40
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    ST/AIM include those buffers with most if not all of the ST uppers they sell. If they are causing problems in a given application I imagine any same weight buffer would in the same gun. All I ever hear about them is that they aren't any better than a rattley one, no worse. Mine works, it was all but free.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by wolf_walker; 08-06-11 at 22:40. Reason: grammer

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