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Thread: Coming to Class?

  1. #1
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    Coming to Class?

    This is from my website, and i offer it as my advice to people coming to my classes.


    Coming to Class?
    What follows is based on my observations over the years, and the opinions are mine. These
    opinions and guideline are, of course, related to my classes, though some may be relative to
    others as well. If you are attending another’s course, contact that instructor directly for his read
    on what to bring.
    E.A.G. has a strict credentialing policy. Appropriate credentials include Active Duty Military ID,
    Police ID, a pistol license from any state or a Certificate of Good Conduct from your local police.
    DoD or non DoD other government agency identification are also accepted. Letters from your
    priest, rabbi, minister, mayor, lawyer, police officer or green grocer are not acceptable. I need a
    communication from an authorized agency, stating no criminal record.
    This credentialing policy is necessary to ensure that we are not providing training to wackos,
    criminals or those that would seek to destroy the United States. I do not apologize for any
    inconvenience incurred- I have to be sure who is attending the class.
    I reserve the absolute right to deny admission or remove a participant for any reason.
    Administrative Issues
    You need to submit a completed application, along with the required credentialing documentation
    and deposit. You will receive a confirmation letter by electrons (or snail mail if requested) advising
    that your seat is reserved. Under certain circumstances we will tentatively reserve space without
    an application (deployed personnel, special job classification personnel etc), but you will be
    required to get these items to us NLT 30 days prior to the class. We will provide range directions
    and lodging information with the confirmation letter or shortly thereafter.
    If you have any questions, contact us immediately at www.eagtactical.com, and we’ll do our best
    to answer your questions.
    Class Conduct
    Training Day 1 will start promptly at 0800 -plan on getting to the range NLT 0715-0730.
    Have your gear sorted out prior to the start of training. Loading your magazines the night before
    will make life easier for you on the following day.
    Ammunition Requirements
    The ammunition requirements represent an average. What you shoot during the course will vary
    according to overall competence of the class, weather, and your stamina and ability.
    In order to learn, you need to have three things present.
    You have to have a need for the training.
    You have to believe that you can do it.
    You have to have fun while learning.
    2
    Your need may be as diverse as that you are someone who carries a gun for a living, or you just
    want to see if you measure up to a certain standard. Or, you may just want to.
    Shooting is relatively simple. The skill sets necessary to become a competent shooter can be
    taught to those who possess average coordination and a desire to learn in a relatively short time.
    Fighting is what’s hard.
    SAFETY
    Safety is the priority. While carrying a firearm, you have a legal, moral and ethical responsibility to
    perform safely.
    The Four Safety Rules
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything that you do not wish to destroy. This includes your
    own body parts.
    3. Keep your finger straight and outside the triggerguard until your sights are on target with
    the intention to shoot.
    4. Be sure of your target. Consider the background.
    Range Rules:
    If you drop something on the ground, leave it. If it is a magazine (the most commonly dropped
    item), leave it and access another one on your body.
    You are concerned with only one task. The instructor has the overall cognizance for the entire
    line. By bending over you may put yourself in a dangerous predicament. The instructor will likely
    see the dropped item and give you permission to retrieve it when it is safe to do so.
    Do not pick up dropped ammunition. The cost of a single round is not worth the problems that can
    result from picking up a round of ammunition not chambered for your gun. Leave it for the police
    call.
    Safety violations will not be tolerated.
    Personal Issues
    Attitude:
    Have a good attitude. While it is the instructor’s job to teach, it is the student’s job to learn.
    Come with a clear mind. There are only so many ways to perform a certain task, but everyone will
    have a different slant on what needs to be done. See what is being offered. If you like it, roll it into
    your trick bag. If not, give it a fair shake while at class. Whether you use a particular Tactic,
    Technique or Procedure (TTP) is up to you.
    Physical Condition:
    3
    My courses are of medium to high energy. You need to be in reasonable physical shape to
    complete the course, but you do not necessarily need to be an athlete.
    If you have any physical issues and are unsure of your ability to perform, contact me directly.
    With age and hard work come injuries. If you have bad knees or a bad back you may not want to
    perform certain drills, such as kneeling or running. Accept the fact that you won’t be able to do
    everything and do what you can. Don’t further hurt yourself while training.
    Your attitude and desire to learn far outweigh most physical issues.
    Equipment
    Gear can be broken down into the following sub groups:
    Guns/ Related Gear
    Support Gear
    Personal/ Snivel Gear
    Guns/ Related Gear
    Guns:
    Not all manufacturers are alike. Certainly all are capable of turning out a quality item, just as all
    are capable of turning out a piece of garbage from time to time. The key is in the consistency of
    the reliability.
    It would be nice if you bring a carbine that you have already put 1000 rounds downrange with, and
    are using the same magazines and ammunition. Certainly that would reduce the potential for
    having a non working weapons system, but it is not always possible.
    You can mitigate the potential for disaster to a certain degree by purchasing quality equipment.
    My Dad used to say “Buy cheap, buy twice” and he was dead nuts on about that.
    Murphy lives on the range and is a constant student at class. You may have a carbine that ran like
    the proverbial sewing machine yesterday, but it may not function at all today. If you can, bring a
    second gun. Failing that, bring a spare bolt and bolt carrier.
    Lube:
    Your carbine is a machine, very much like the motor in your ride. Your engine requires lubrication
    and so does your carbine. The gun will require more lube at a class where you are firing 400-600
    rounds per day than if you are plinking at a range. Shooting will blow lube off the bolt and you
    may have to re apply lube during the day.
    As with guns, not all lubricants are equal. My preference is to stay away from the petroleum based
    CLP and use instead Slip 2000 for cleaning and lubrication. The TW25B grease is the only non
    viscous lube that I would recommend.
    4
    You need to be able to apply the lube properly. Generally, place oil on the inside of the bolt
    carrier, the bolt cam pin slot, on the underside of the bolt carrier and on the bolt itself, especially
    around the gas rings.
    The gas rings do not need to be staggered, a myth that is now accepted as fact. A good gun will
    run fine with one gas ring.
    Weapon Mounted Lights
    Certain classes require a weapon mounted light for the primary weapon. There are lights and
    there are lights. Bring something that is robust, dependable and provides sufficient light for the
    task.
    Cleaning:
    Starting off with a clean and properly lubricated carbine will go a long way to ensuring that you
    will maximize your learning experience.
    At the end of the training day wipe down your bolt/ bolt carrier and clean the chamber. Re- lube as
    necessary. Obsessive/ excessive cleaning may do more harm then good.
    Sights:
    Iron sights are simple and rugged- as well as being difficult to use. Optical sights offer many
    advantages, including the ability to increase the certainty of first round hits. As with all things, not
    all optics are equal. Buy smart and save yourself a lot of grief in the long run.
    If you have a battery powered optic, put fresh batteries in before the class starts, and have
    another set available. Batteries are pretty reliable, but some lesser brands have been known to be
    dead when shipped from the factory.
    Slings:
    A sling is to a carbine as a holster is to a pistol. Slings are generally classified into two types- a
    Parade Sling or carry strap, and a Tactical Sling.
    The Parade Sling is a leftover from days of wood stocks and iron sights. It is meant to carry the
    gun administratively.
    The Tactical Sling is meant to carry the carbine operationally. Tac Slings can be 3 Point, 2 Point or
    Single Point. Each has its place in the line up, and each sling has both pro’s and con’s.
    Magazines:
    Bring at least six (6) serviceable magazines. Bring more if you can - having more magazines will
    permit you to pre load ammunition, and thus allow you to actually rest during breaks.
    Don’t bring any beater mags - something that doesn’t work will only make you aggravated, reduce
    your ability to process information and generally piss off the other students while you suffer
    through your malfunction drills.
    5
    USGI magazines are acceptable, as are Brownells and H&K. Avoid aftermarket magazines,
    especially those made by USA. Plastic magazines (Thermold and Orlite) are iffy, and may not be
    useful.
    If you use USGI magazines, consider replacing the followers with the Magpul anti tilt follower.
    Ammunition:
    Bring serviceable ammunition. While the majority of the training takes place at 50m and under,
    you need ammunition that works. Some off shore ammunition is horrible, and some is pretty
    good. My preference is for Black Hills, but as always, you use what works.
    Support Gear
    Body Armor:
    Armor is required for certain classes. This needs to be soft armor with in conjunction rifle plates
    (recommended) or stand alone rifle plates (acceptable).
    We regret that we can not provide armor for loan.
    Load Carriage:
    You need to have a way to carry at least two loaded carbine magazines on your body. If you are a
    SWAT cop or military, you’ll probably already have a handle on this, and you need to wear in
    training what you will when the fight starts.
    If you are an average Joe, you need to put some thought into it.
    The odds of an average civilian using a carbine for defensive purposes are extremely slender.
    Pistols are used, and occasionally a shotgun, but you might be hard pressed to consider that it
    has happened much in the recent past.
    That does not mean that it can’t, or won’t happen in the future. Just try to put things in
    perspective. Your carbine will probably never be used defensively. Therefore the “train as you
    fight” adage may have no significance here.
    If you want to wear a LBV or a sub load and a dump pouch it will probably add to your efficiency,
    but you do not have to get them for my classes.
    You are not required to spend a whole lot more of your hard earned money to buy a tac vest and
    multiple pouches. If you have a sturdy belt (such as a Riggers Belt) or a War Belt or Duty Belt, you
    can probably get buy with a Kydex or nylon magazine pouch or two. Single cell mag pouches are
    easy to access, but two can take up a fair amount of real estate. A two cell mag pouch requires
    less space, but is thicker, and if not properly designed, can cause the loss of a magazine.
    Stay away from mag pouches that hold three or more magazines- they are not worth the trouble.
    A sub load (a leg pouch) is a convenient way to carry magazines. However, carrying more than
    two magazines on a leg panel can make movement and getting into/ out of positions difficult.
    Placing magazine in your trouser pocket may work for you, but is inefficient and will slow you
    down.
    Dump Pouch:
    6
    A dump pouch is optional, but is a very good thing to have. Expended or partially expended
    magazines have to go somewhere, and leaving them on the deck invites damage or loss.
    Holster:
    You need a holster that provides positive retention while getting into and out of positions. You do
    not necessarily need a tactical (drop leg) holster.
    Pistol Magazine Pouch:
    You need the ability to carry two pistol magazines on your body.
    Personal/ Snivel Gear
    Eyepro:
    You came into this world with two each eyes. It is very uncool to depart with less then that. Like
    guns, not all eyepro is equal. At a minimum, get something that meets ANSI Z87.1 specs. Do not
    use optical glass- it is a hazard on the range.
    I strongly prefer Oakley eyepro because of their superior QC/ QA.
    Earpro:
    Powered earpro will permit you to hear range commands more easily. If you use powered earpro,
    face the microphones to the rear so that they are facing the instructor who is talking to you.
    Cover:
    Wear a baseball type hat. Not only will it keep the sun out of your eyes, but it will keep that pesky
    hot brass from finding its way down between your eyepro and your face. This presumes, of
    course , that you read the instructions and wear the brim to the front. If you wear the brim to the
    rear you may also prefer to hold your weapon gangsta style - in which case, you are in the wrong
    class.
    Neckerchief:
    Regardless of the weather, wear something around your neck to keep your shooting buddy’s hot
    brass from sliding down your back. Pain may be temporary, but a serious burn on your back will
    make concentration difficult.
    Knee and Elbow Pads:
    You must have knee pads. The hard shell types are a must. Elbow pads are optional, but
    recommended.
    Clothing
    Wear big boys’ trousers. Minor scrapes have a habit of becoming infected quickly. Besides, no
    one cares about how your legs look.
    7
    Footwear
    If your feet aren’t happy neither will you. Wear shoes/ boots that are comfortable, broken in, and
    provide sufficient support.
    Climate Specific
    Bring Gore-Tex tops and bottoms- rain occurs, and you are attending to learn new TTP, not how to
    be miserable. Bring sufficient warm clothing (fleece, sweat shirts etc) for those unexpected cold
    spells.
    If space permits, it is always better to have and not need then the other way around.
    Hydration
    Failure to hydrate properly can lead to confusion, disorientation and worse. You can carry water
    on your body in a Camelbak and drink when you want to, or use a yuppie canteen and drink when
    you can, but you need to get fluid into your body. Using Gatorade, Gookenaid or similar products
    will help greatly.
    Food
    This is not the time to go on a diet. Snacking during the day, along with proper hydration will keep
    you healthy and alert.
    Lickies and Chewies
    Hard candy, Skittles, M&M’s, Snickers and the like can provide energy and not a little pleasure
    during the training day.
    Sunscreen
    A sunburn is sure way to ensure that your stay at class will be miserable in the short term, and
    possibly much worse in the long term. Apply twice a day for proper protection.
    Meds
    Certain medications and shooting don’t mix. Contact your health care provider for more
    information.
    Owie Kit
    Have a small first aid kit with Neosporin, band aids, pain meds and the like for those aggravating
    injuries that you will collect.
    Decon
    Discharging a weapon, handling ammunition, and cleaning and lubricating your weapons will
    make your paws dirty. Make sure that you bring- and use - a waterless anti bacterial soap with you
    8
    Summary
    The purpose of training is to acquire certain skill sets that will permit you to win the fight. Don’t
    buy/ bring things to class to impress me- rather, bring what meets your mission requirements.
    If you have specific questions about gear, training or related tasks, contact me directly and we’ll
    try to get it sorted out.
    SOURCES:
    Vendors
    Mid South Tactical Network
    www.mstn.biz
    G and R Tactical
    www.gandrtactical.com
    Load Carriage
    www.eagleindustries.com
    Rails/ Mounts
    www.laruetactical.com
    Eyepro
    www.oakley.com
    Slings
    www.thewilderness.com
    www.blueforcegear.com
    Magazines, stocks etc
    www.magpul.com
    Magazine Loaders
    www.betaco.com
    Pistol grips, VFG’s, Bipods and Rail Panels
    www.tangodownllc.com
    9
    Lighting Tools
    www.surefire.com
    Optical Sights
    www.aimpoint.com
    www.eotech.com
    www.trijicon.com
    Lube/ Cleaning
    www.slip2000.com
    Copyright Patrick A. Rogers. 2006

  2. #2
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    I'm gonna take a little poke at this topic. If I was truly going to "train as I fight" Then for all intensive purposes, I need to find a class where I will be in my Underwear and I'm laying in bed and I grab my G-17 and a 6P and start engaging bad guys in my bedroom doorway......

    I have no Illusions that I will most likely never engage a bad guy with my AR and that I will most likely be using a pistol locked in a safe box next to my bed (Untill WI passes a CCW law). But I'm not taking Carbine classes for that. I'm taking them for a whole other dynamic. Because I enjoy them....... There fun, I love the shit out of them. I like the guys you meet, I like the mentality of the folks in class. I like the Instructors, I like all the cool gear and gadgets and I like to shoot with like minded shooters on a course of fire that challenges me at all levels.
    Being a retired Army Guy, I need something to keep the "Juices" flowing. I need to be around Type A shooters who like to shoot and shoot a lot. For me classes are the High light of my year. I look forward to them with a passion unknown to mankind.

    As to my choices of gear. I've tired a little bit of everything and I like to get a little kitted up. for starters, I like to shoot... let me rephrase that... I like to shoot alot at a class. That's what I came for. My choice of gear allows me to be self sustained and stay on the line and shoot as long and as much as possible in any weather. Sure a Guy can get up on the line with 2 mags and have enough ammo to complete the drill. But I want enough ammo to complete my drill, yours and the guy two tgts down who's gun goes down cause he bought a cheap POS and now he has to get it fixed which leaves his tgt open for me (Trust me, it happens on a regular basis... I don't make this up).

    Armor.. Sure, I wear my Armor, why not. it's good practice and challenges me , plus I figure being in a class with 24 guys X's 1000 rds each expended during 3 days... Hey.. I figure I gotta better chance of taking one in class then anywhere else... The odds are just better....

    Thigh rigs. I've used them. For class they can work well. the secret is 2 M4 Mags Max. No more, anything else and it's two heavy and unwieldy and sticks out to much.

    The rest of the advice every gave is quite good and I really can't expand on it much more then this.

    Have your shit together before you show up and have fun. . My last class with Pat we were shooting on a GREAT Range Facility and we had F16's flying over head. And I'm on a range with 23 other guys armed to the teeth shooting AR's and Pistols. Like he says.. It don't get much better then that... God bless America.....**** Yea..............

  3. #3
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    Excellent information Pat!!! Do you mind if I copy and paste this under the course announcements?



    Thanks,
    Jeff

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  5. #5
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    Jeff- Please do! Feel free to use it as you wish.

    Grant- sorry for delay in responding to e mail. Been away doing two AK classes and waaaay behind the power curve.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers
    Jeff- Please do! Feel free to use it as you wish.

    Grant- sorry for delay in responding to e mail. Been away doing two AK classes and waaaay behind the power curve.

    No worries Pat! I would also like to say that I enjoyed your article about the AK and it made me want to get one!




    C4

  7. #7
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    Thanks Grant. I enjoyed writing that one.
    The AK is bother over and underrated, and a lot is lost in the myths that surround most guns.
    It would never be my first choice for real work, but it is a useable weapon.
    My observations are that the ergonomics are terrible (which causes a myriad of training issues), and while that can me somewhat mitigated with training (and some aftermarket parts) it is a weak sister to a rifle developed merely a decade later.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant
    No worries Pat! I would also like to say that I enjoyed your article about the AK and it made me want to get one!

    C4
    As much as I might like one, my wife would recognize it as another (i.e. different) gun. Then there are the issues of ammunition, mags, spare parts and more training. Another carbine on the other hand... Nah, she can count, too.

    Pat - Could you post it like a software license so students have to read and accept before they can sign up for a class?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Submariner
    Pat - Could you post it like a software license so students have to read and accept before they can sign up for a class?
    Now, that is an excellent idea!
    By and large, i am seeing a higher quality student in the open enrollment classes this year. Far less zeros, and more astute people who are locked on and willing to learn.

    Understood about an AK. I have because i have a need.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat_Rogers
    Far less zeros, and more astute people who are locked on and willing to learn.
    Uh oh! I guess I'm out...

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