Usefullness of a Laser on an AR?

[toddackerman]

I'm posting this here because it's not intended to be a discussion about a Laser product, but the viability of using a Laser in a tatical situation.

So my question is two-fold....

1. Do you believe that a laser for general civilian use/ home defense is a good tactical tool to have on your AR. Is it necessary? Why, or why not?

2. Do you currently have a laser on your AR, or have you ever had one on your AR?

I run an EOTech 512 "F" series, and a SF 9V Millenium 962 light, so I am prepared for low light situations, but I have found that it's really, really easy and fast to hit with a Laser in the dark, as I'm sure many of you have expereienced with the Laser pistol grips.

For information purposes. I have an OTAL, in a LaRue Mount with a tape switch on my TD VFG. My light is in a LaRue offset mount that I operate with my weak thumb off the VFG.

My concern...I think I have too much on the rifle, and that it may over complicate things in a real fight. I.e., what button to hit...or not hit? Thinking about selling it all, which will be the second time I have bought and sold a laser for my AR.

What say you?

Thanks for your constructive inputs!

Tack

[Pat_Rogers]

I'm posting this here because it's not intended to be a discussion about a Laser product, but the viability of using a Laser in a tatical situation.

So my question is two-fold....
I will broadly assume that you are talking about a visible laser???

1. Do you believe that a laser for general civilian use/ home defense is a good tactical tool to have on your AR. Is it necessary? Why, or why not?
Yes
That depends on your level of training/ competence
See above
2. Do you currently have a laser on your AR, or have you ever had one on your AR?
Yes- multiple

I run an EOTech 512 "F" series, and a SF 9V Millenium 962 light, so I am prepared for low light situations, but I have found that it's really, really easy and fast to hit with a Laser in the dark, as I'm sure many of you have expereienced with the Laser pistol grips.
Not bad- but remember that you will have to access those tiny and difficult to reach "on" button to activate the RDS. I run Aimpoints on most of my guns- i do not ever turn them off)


For information purposes. I have an OTAL, in a LaRue Mount with a tape switch on my TD VFG. My light is in a LaRue offset mount that I operate with my weak thumb off the VFG.

My concern...I think I have too much on the rifle, and that it may over complicate things in a real fight. I.e., what button to hit...or not hit? Thinking about selling it all, which will be the second time I have bought and sold a laser for my AR.
A very distinct possibility. Proper initial training and sustainment training is the key

What say you?

Thanks for your constructive inputs!

Tack

Consider that a vis laser is a supplement rather then a substitute for other conventional sighting systems. It is extremely useful from asymetrical shooting positions, or when shooting from a moving platform, at a moving platform (or a combination of both) as well as under other specific circumstances.
Most who own guns have very little time behind it in low light. Fewer still understand the dynamics of fighting a gun in low light- that is painfully apparent when reading some posts.
Fewer still have time with vis laser.
When you consider that probably less then 5% of the gun owning population has any training at all, you can see the problems.
Hope this helps Todd!

[toddackerman]

Pat,

Thanks so much for your expert input!

Tack

[Pat_Rogers]

You're Welcome Todd.
FWIW- I have vis lasers on those pistols i carry, and on those carbines that i use for teaching.

[markm]

I'm not a big fan of the visible lasers personally.

I guess I'm a product of the instructors that I've trained under. So lasers and optics are not really found on any of my fighting carbeans.

The thing with the laser is that if you have more than just yourself beaming, you need to make sure you know which laser is yours. Otherwise you get several shooters on a threat wiggling their gun to find out which beam is theirs. I know in the home D role, it may just be you. But something to be mindful of.

[Patrick Aherne]

Lasers are a tool. They work real well when you are wearing an NBC protective mask, or when you are using techniques to effectively shorten the carbine in entries and the like.

When my agency ran 92Fs with CTC lasers, our night qual scores went up, across the board.

Visible lasers can also help you in dry practice; they make it real easy to see poor trigger control.

I place my order of importance for accessories on a rifle like so: 1) sling, 2) light, 3) optics, 4) laser, mag carriers, etc.

I would be more concerned about your Eotech than the laser. I have had a number crap out on me. My Aimpoint and Compact ACOGs are much more reliable.

If I were you, I would keep the laser because you might not be able to turn the Eotech on in time. Just practice, with an UNLOADED carbine (hopefully you have purchased a safety device like safe-stix), activating the laser and checking out the angles in your house. Do this lighted and with the lights out.

Remember, if you walk along with that beam on all the time, everyone around a corner or in another room will know there's something with a laser attached over yonder.

Practice illuminating with the light and laser at the same time, then moving. Hard to do in most small houses.

[toddackerman]

Good input Pat. Thanks!

Tack

[Pat_Rogers]

halfgod- your comments are disturbingly common. In Memphis a few weeks ago two guys had fixed stock A2's, gooseneck Aimpoint rails and carry straps. Both stated that "their" instructors liked/ didn't like.
One was a former student of mine from a long time ago. He has never had any experience, so his comments about what works/ not works are limited to feed back from students (which can be good or bad) and conjecture.

The other instructor may be stuck in another decade.
(they both requested info on how to have a more useful gun by the end of the class.

We know maybe 1000 times more about fighting with guns now then before 9/11.
We knew maybe 100,000 times more then before 1983.
We knew maybe 1,000,000 more then we knew in WW2

The point is this. We need to be able to kill those POS more efficiently.
The optic is a force multiplier, and assists in that.
The IR laser also assists in that. The white light also assists in that. The vis laser also assists in that
The tactical sling also assists in that.

I carried iron sighted, wood and steel guns in combat. I would not want to do that now.

You may need to seek out some other instructors who have more relevant experience.

Pat Ahearne is correct. The Aimpoint is the most prolific and useful RDS out there. The EO works. The Aimpoint is (subjectively and otherwise) better.

[markm]

The point is this. We need to be able to kill those POS more efficiently.
The optic is a force multiplier, and assists in that.
The IR laser also assists in that. The white light also assists in that. The vis laser also assists in that
The tactical sling also assists in that.

I can definitely agree on the IR laser, White light, and Tac sling. Those have painfully obvious advantages.

With the Aimdots and such, my near sighted eyes blurr the dot to the point that I'm not confident in making a 50 yard head shot with 100% confidence.

With Vis lasers it just gets too complex for me. I'm not good at thinking about multiple systems... especially under stress. I'll be lucky to remember the light, charging handle, and trigger.... let alone another button or pressure pad for a laser. That's just me.... I don't multitask extremely well!

I have been considering doing 1 AR with the intention of adding an Aimpoint. I'm a humble and professional student and always ready to be exposed to different or better ways... But I've never been thru a class or any event where I felt that I was at a disadvantage for not having an RDS. If it ever got to the point where the instructor said "Alright. Make safe, and let's go check your targets" and I found that I was being outshot by the Dot guys, I'd definitely be whipping the credit card out.

[Pat_Rogers]

If you think working switches is complicated, be really glad that you are only punching paper and not dealing with bad guys.

It is not about how a target looks- that is pure marksmanship. It is about much more then that.
Anyone can shoot. And with very little training. some can shoot real well.

If that is all that is in your future, have at it and enjoy. But please refrain from commenting on what others need to do to keep the hate train rolling.