For the M&P Owners- A Few Pre-buy Questions

[Jellybean]

So I've (mostly) decided I want to go with M&P's for my handguns.
However, I'm kind of at that point where I know what I want, I just don't know how I want it...
I figured it might be good to get some fresh/more current info as well.

The M&P9-C will be the first one I'm going for, so I can carry.
There are plans for (eventually) a full size 9mm, and possibly a .45 as well.
Onward:

Safety- yay or nay?
Seems about 50/50 - some folks say it's to loose/stupid, others like it...
What kind of interference am I likely to get with a holster in the Raven/KC-25/Kaluban Cloak style (if using safety)?
I am used to shooting guns both with and without a safety (AR/Glock), although I do kind of like having it.
However, I believe it could be removed later on...

APEX parts- I am leaning in favor of doing these, given the positive reviews they have gotten. I am a little confused though, between the Sear and DCAEK- I would be correct to say that the DCAEK includes everything, and I wouldn't need to get the sear seperately?
Would it be better to get it with the kit installed? Or separately? (In case of a major 'send it to s&w' issue) Will I need a gunsmith to install if separate?

I'm assuming, given the rampant use of these handguns, that the current production models have most of the kinks worked out?
Would there be any general things I may have missed to do/not do when ordering?

I realize some of this has already been discussed in depth (and have read a lot of the related threads, which led to my current decision)- just was hoping to get some more current, real- time info...

[opmike]

Well, the APEX website gives a complete list of everything that comes with the DCAEK:

The APEX Duty/Carry Action Enhancement Kit (DCAEK) was designed to provide the M&P (9 mm, .357 Sig & .40 only) pistol owner a smooth, consistent 5 - 5.5 lb trigger pull with the advantages of shorter over-travel and reduced reset. The kit includes:

* APEX Hard Sear (9 mm, .357 Sig & .40 series) - NOT FOR .45 ACP
* APEX M&P Ultimate Striker Block Kit (USB kit)
* APEX M&P Increased Rate Sear Spring** (very small) & Trigger Return Spring
**Two sear springs of different sizes are included with kit

Everything in the kit can be installed yourself. If you have the option of getting one with the kit already installed, that would be a logical route to take assuming the place knows what the hell they're doing.

Personally, I have no desire to have a safety on this type of handgun. Opinions are split because it's largely a matter of preference. Both camps will probably argue their side until the cows come home.

[Joeywhat]

I like the safety to a degree. I have ZERO issue with a non thumb safety M&P, in fact my daily carry is setup as such...however the M&P is also one of the few handguns with thumb safety that I can use without interference trying to flip off the safety, and my next handgun purchase will probably be a TS .45 M&P. Mostly because I can...again, I don't find it necessary in the least bit, but I also find the safety a nice place to index my thumb when getting a firing grip on the gun. In short, don't overthink it...

As far as trigger goes, a local shop by me does really good trigger work. Better then the Apex stuff, but only because it's a tuned trigger job and not a simple drop in. Can also do some reset work. Overall FANTASTIC trigger in my opinion. Prices aren't too bad either, save for having to ship out the pistol (shipping sucks...). I can forward his contact info to you. He's done a TON of local M&P's and quite a few around the country as well.

[Hmac]

I have a 9L. I put about 350 rounds through it and still hated the trigger so I put in a DCAEK. I did leave out the trigger return spring that came in the kit. That kit made it into a completely different gun for me and I highly recommend it right out of the box.

I'm in the no-safety camp.

[Sensei]

I see no real need for the safety, and I only recommend it for those coming from a 1911 background where safety manipulation is already part of the draw. I definitely do not recommend it for people who spent most of their time with Glocks.

As for the APEX parts, you need to order the DCAEK (smooths and lightens trigger) and RAM (provides a distinct trigger reset and allows manuel trigger reset). These are not optional and I would not use the M&P platform without them. Most people can handle the install with a 1/8" punch, vice, hammer, and fine forceps. You can find APEX install videos on Utube to see if it is something within your capability. If you can't do it, make sure that you send it to a competent M&P armorer, and not some gun shop clown who will attempt it for the first time while watching the Utube video. You can also send the weapon to APEX to get it done by the pros for about $160 - I think this includes parts.

You will also need some quality night sites, but these can be installed with the DCAEK since the procedure involves removing the rear site.

[Steve S.]

As far as trigger goes, a local shop by me does really good trigger work. Better then the Apex stuff, but only because it's a tuned trigger job and not a simple drop in. Can also do some reset work. Overall FANTASTIC trigger in my opinion. Prices aren't too bad either, save for having to ship out the pistol (shipping sucks...). I can forward his contact info to you. He's done a TON of local M&P's and quite a few around the country as well.

I've handled a few different trigger jobs and the APEX stuff is pretty unbeatable - despite being a drop in.

The DCAEK is a very good investment. I would also look for an M&P with the "stepped" rear sight when buying one. I understand this was the last modification done by the factor - so it will contain the improved striker and other upgrades.

Another easy way to tell is to look for the date code on the box. It's a 4 digit number underneath the serial number. Look for the white sticker and it's to the bottom right (if memory serves me right). The first number is the "year" it was made and the next three numbers are the day of the year. So for example - "9013" means it was made January 13, 2009. Or "0140" would be somewhere in May 2010.

Hope this helps some...

[Magsz]

Buy it with a thumb safety.

If you do not like it you can always remove it and plug up the frame holes. You will be buying a gun with the ability to have a safety should you decide you want it whereas the other way around...you're screwed.

IF you're going for a 9c i would without a doubt recommend the thumb safety over one without for one reason alone.

The safety gives you a ledge to hold on to while manipulating the handgun. Without that ledge i found it VERY hard to work with the gun to do anything but shoot. Reloads, malfunction clearing were all difficult because of the fact that when there is no magazine in the gun my pinky hangs in space. There is simply not enough grip length to get an effective hold on the gun.

The safety lever allows me to add tension to the frame by pushing down with my thumb while manipulating the firearm.

Now, the one downside to going this route is that some of the APEX parts, such as the RAM will currently not work but the platform does NOT NEED APEX parts. The parts merely help, significantly but they are not required.

On top of that, Randy has said that he will be releasing a safety equipped sear housing version eventually (at least i believe he did).

Plus, IF you decide down the road you dont want to work with a safety you can always swap your sear housing out for a non safety version, the reverse is NOT true. The swap would cost you less than 30 dollars so its kind of a no brainer in my eyes.

Before purchasing a gun pick a model that was produced after September 2010. There has been alot of rumblings that the sear housing, spring and plunger were modified and that all guns after September of 2010 come with this upgrade.

Some people are still receiving guns without the upgrade that were produced after 9/2010 so im not sure exactly what is happening there. Still, buying a recent, up to date gun will minimize your chances of getting the older sear housing. Truthfully, its not that big of a deal but if you can get the best bang for your buck...definitely do so.

Enjoy the M&P platform, i think you're going to love it.

[John_Wayne777]

As far as the safety goes, it its a personal preference dependent upon your needs and physiology. I never got along well with the safetied versions of the M&P I tried. Others love them. I'd suggest playing with one to see if the safety fits you.

As for the trigger components, I've tried almost every trigger configuration out there and I've come to thus conclusion:

Run the gun in the stock configuration for a while before you worry about trigger mods. A trigger job is not a requirement. If you invest time and effort into learning to run the gun before you futz with it, you may find that you don't really need to play with the weapon's guts.

If after a while you do decide you want the change the trigger pull, the Apex kit is the way to go.

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[walkingbush]

Buy it with a thumb safety.

If you do not like it you can always remove it and plug up the frame holes. You will be buying a gun with the ability to have a safety should you decide you want it whereas the other way around...you're screwed...

Only one question here. Are you willing to say. "Yes Mr. Prosecutor, I decided to remove factory safety features from my handgun because I know more about how it should work than the manufacturer? " Decide which one you want and stick with it.

Michael Coffman



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[Hat Creek]

Up until the XD and M&P, the industry standard for single action pistols was to have a manual safety. Add a mushy trigger pull, be vague on the features, let gun magazine hacks do the analysis and most will assume they are double action. It may not be a problem for your particular use. Changing the factory trigger pull with after market parts is likely more of a problem, but in reality, most legal actions will look at what your actions related to the act and why. Equipment and ammunition may come up in a legal process, but don't play out in the final analysis and decision.