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Thread: Can someone tell me about my work gun

  1. #31
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    There are no legal repercussions if you use the weapon on duty with a properly staked bolt-Do it yourself-a properly staked castle nut-do it yourself-and an extractor up grade spring which should have been done in the first place. These are not modifications. This is the proper way the weapon should have been built in the first place.
    Dave
    Independent Field Testing/R & D

    Better to die for something than live for nothing

  2. #32
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    How many posting here are lawyers?


    Somebody post the technical diagrams with the appropriate staking information from whatever source you have (Colt/mil) and take that to your freindliest armorer and have them do it.

    Otherwise this guy is "doing shit he heard on the internet " as far as his dept is concerned.

    I have similar non gun guys as dept gun wrenches and got an idea of what the op is dealing with.



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  3. #33
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    I talked to one of our armorers today about the mods that had been recommended. As I predicted, the response was "we've been running those guns for years and haven't had any problems with them the way they are..." I tried to explain the benefits and the minor investment it would cost per gun etc. Deaf ears. He's a former Marine too, I figured he'd be on board if anyone was. There is talk of letting us supply our own rifles, my 6920 will be in if that's ever the case.

  4. #34
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    ........
    Last edited by charmcitycop; 09-21-13 at 16:43. Reason: .......

  5. #35
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    You need to show him your 6920 and explain that the 6920 is the standard. Then you need to show him what it is that Bushamster is not doing. Explain that they are cutting corners and it's not right.

    Explain that if the dept is concerned about liability they should be concerned enough to fix them.

    Also point out that as per the TM it is supposed to be done and I'll gladly email you a copy of the most current one.

    Quote Originally Posted by hearno View Post
    I talked to one of our armorers today about the mods that had been recommended. As I predicted, the response was "we've been running those guns for years and haven't had any problems with them the way they are..." I tried to explain the benefits and the minor investment it would cost per gun etc. Deaf ears. He's a former Marine too, I figured he'd be on board if anyone was. There is talk of letting us supply our own rifles, my 6920 will be in if that's ever the case.



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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearno View Post
    As I predicted, the response was "we've been running those guns for years and haven't had any problems with them the way they are..."
    I've heard all that BS before, I can show him several Bushmaster gas keys that came loose because they were not properly staked. Just one of the reasons we don't have them anymore.
    Your safety is the issue here and if it was me, I wouldn't ask I'd just make the corrections.

    Sidenote: IG, if you could email me a current TM I'd appreciate it.
    Law Enforcement Memorial
    In Valor There Is Hope - Tacitus

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by charmcitycop View Post
    You can't allow yourself to be paralyzed by procedure - you won't have anytime for police work if you do.
    Just use common sense to temper your understanding of policy.
    If you haven't figured out how to bend the rules by now...I don't know what to tell you.
    It's funny that you use the word paralyze because that is the culture of our department right now. Officers and supervisors are literally scared to do police work. A new chief took control 18 months ago and has made some drastic changes. Progressive discipline is the name of the game and what used to lead to a slap on the wrist is now leading to days on the hill or termination. A buddy was just fired for the following chain of events. 1. Being late to work 3 times in a year. 2. Failing to voucher evidence on time. 3. Driving 90 mph in a 55 mph zone to catch up with another officer in a vehicle pursuit. Another coworker was just put on admin suspension for being less than truthful about her reason for taking a sick day. Who hasn't called in well so they could enjoy a nice day....
    Last edited by hearno; 03-24-11 at 07:13.

  8. #38
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    time for a department change.

    in the mean time- i wouldn't be caught dead holding a seized up bushmaster with a thrashed receiver extension- PUN DEFINITELY INTENDED, and not meant to be funny.

    stake that bitch. **** risking your life because somebody cant take an afternoon to read the -23. you would definitely not be the first LEO axed holding a malfunctioned weapon.
    Last edited by bkb0000; 03-24-11 at 07:34.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearno View Post
    ...I confirmed that in our policy and procedure, modifications or alterations are prohibited on department owned firearms except by an armorer...
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow65
    These are not modifications. This is the proper way the weapon should have been built in the first place.
    Heed this. Putting air in your patrol car tires to bring them to proper spec is not "modification" either.

    Frankly, given what you are dealing with, I just don't see anyone noticing. And if they ask, there's no need to "lie". Particularly with respect to staking, all you did was *properly* secure functional parts of the weapon. The old say "rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" applies when dealing with weapon reliability, IMHO.

    My $.02
    Last edited by 5cary; 03-24-11 at 10:15.
    ********************
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  10. #40
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    OK, I see two ways to deal with this;

    1) Liability runs both ways. Put it on paper. Memo your immediate supervisor, CC whomever is in charge of training/weapons, even the chief if you want. Point is make it go up, not just to your immediate.

    Just have the memo say that while you were inspecting your newly issued rifle you found a few easily remedied deficiencies that present possible officer safety concerns. Note that you examined several other officers weapons and that they all appear to share said deficiencies. Reference and specify the correct parts, their approximate cost per weapon, as well as the necessary tools (spring punch) and their cost.

    Include the relevant pages of the TM in the body of the memo, not as attachments. At the sig block make sure you list the CC recipients, and be sure to cc "file" and keep a copy for yourself...

    Like I said liability runs both ways. You'll get some movement or you truly work for idiots.

    or

    2) Clean and Inspect your weapon (you are allowed to do this right?). While inspecting use the proper tool to check tightness of castle nut, and gas key bolts along with various other fasteners... While cleaning the bolt disassemble the extractor to inspect and fully clean it.

    If say durring this cleaning and PM you find that say the castle nut and gas key screws are loose... and that maybe you bunged up the extractor spring/lost the insert while putting it back together...

    Well then promptly take the rifle to the Dpt armorer. Let him know that it's OK you just happen to have a replacement extractor spring and insert he can use. Also show him the relevant pages of the TM so he can insure that those loose parts don't come loose again.

    2a) Same as #2 but fix all Items yourself according to TM. If anyone ever asks (they wont) you didn't do anything wrong. You are expected to clean/inspect and PM your weapons right? Well, then you cant be wrong using the published TM to do it properly.
    My fear is that ahh, the whole island will ahh, become so overly populated, that it will tip over and ahh, and capsize...
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