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Thread: Carbine vs. Middy: Real world use

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    I'm sure Pat has some decent data or at least a well informed opinion.
    The problem is that he is a product whore and will say good shit about whomever gives him the most stuff.... or which company he has a buddy at.... who gives him free shit.

    This isn't unique to Rogers for sure, but he's pretty bad about it. Credibility isn't a Rogers strong point.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  2. #82
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    Got an email back from Pat. Filthy 14 is at 44k with the only broken part a bolt. Otherwise springs have been replaced as needed.

    Mark, you're a ?+%$#*& who is only mad at Pat because he was mean to you on barf once years ago and you can't get over it. Your opinion is based on that and that alone. I've heard And seen pat say negative things about products given or loaned to him all the time. You should stick to talking about things with which you has actual experience with, and Pat is not one of them.

  3. #83
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    Based upon my experience the only thing that really wears out are the "springs" and gas rings. Of course the barrel at some point as well. Lowers will probably outlast the owner and so will the hammers, triggers and disconnectors.

    I think the Filthy 14 should have been an eye opener for most people.

    I hear what you are saying about the test needing to be anal. I guess that's just too much minutia for me. I totally agree that all of them needed to be identical, but the whole ambient air temp, pressure, the alignment of moon and stars seemed a little too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Unfortunately, if you didn't "get all crazy about it" there wouldn't be much point. It wouldn't be much more than anecdotal. I'd personally still find the test interesting, but there would be so many other variables, even with just the two guns. I could see an argument for "two identical guns with the exception of the gas system length", but there's potentially other variables there too, like barrel contour, handguard length/weight, etc. Just spitballing, I think the way to try to normalize it as much as possible
    11.0 FF handguard (say a Troy TRX Extreme to make it easy)
    low-profile gas blocks
    16" "pencil" barrels, one carbine-length gas one mid-length
    Then identical sights, optic, buffer, stock, grip, etc.

    This way, with the above setup, the only difference between the guns would be that the Mid weighed incrementally more due to the slightly longer gas tube, and had a balance point incrementally further forward due to the weight of the gas block being 2" further forward. There are even ways that these things could be mitigated.

    Having two identical guns, and ensuring that they both got identical (at least as much as possible) ammo, the test would be mildly interesting. I would think that Pat would be about the best person to do such a test as he sees a large volume of fire, has the relationship with BCM to get the rifles, and the relationship with Asym ammo to ensure that the students running the guns shot the same, quality, ammo.

    Here's the thing. Everyone talks about the lighter pressure putting "less stress on internal parts"? OK. At what point do you think they fail anyway? Anyone been keeping tabs on Pat's other test guns, like Filthy 14? I have an email in to Pat, but I'm not recalling any lower parts failures, and that gun, IIRC, is north of 40k rounds. At what point is "better" immeasurable, or so much better that it's insignificant? Like fireproof curtains on the Titanic.



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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Got an email back from Pat. Filthy 14 is at 44k with the only broken part a bolt. Otherwise springs have been replaced as needed.
    14 is a good example, even if it is a sample of one. How does it compare to parts breakage numbers for a similar quality carbine?

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    Port pressure is what you'd like to reduce a little. And the pig tail doesn't do that.
    Gas port pressure can't be changed by altering the size of the gas port. An increase or decrease in gas port size changes VOLUME.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    Gas port pressure can't be changed by altering the size of the gas port. An increase or decrease in gas port size changes VOLUME.
    Agreed.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  7. #87
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    While I don't agree that gas port pressure can't be changed, I can't remember the formulas to back that up atm.

    I do agree it affects volume, but more specifically, flow, or volume per unit time.
    B.A.S. Mechanical Engineering Technology

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric D. View Post
    While I don't agree that gas port pressure can't be changed, I can't remember the formulas to back that up atm.

    I do agree it affects volume, but more specifically, flow, or volume per unit time.
    The ONLY way to change port pressure is to change chamber dimensions or ammunition.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    The ONLY way to change port pressure is to change chamber dimensions or ammunition.
    Indeed. If you look at a load's pressure curve, the PSI at any given point in the barrel is what it is...

    Put a gas port at a given point and that's what you are dealing with.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  10. #90
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    Isn't port pressure also affected by the length of the barrel and the location of the port? Or am I thinking of chamber pressure?

    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    The ONLY way to change port pressure is to change chamber dimensions or ammunition.



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