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Thread: Stag 2tl

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by An Undocumented Worker View Post
    One of the reasons people don't have proper muzzle discipline is because they are taught that guns have 2 states, loaded and unloaded. Naturally they treat the gun differently when they percieve it to be unloaded.

    Here is an article that more thoroughly describes the problems that come with the first of the golden four rules of fire arms safety.

    http://grantcunningham.com/blog_file...bf118-258.html

    the full article is in the link above.
    That is an interesting philosophical way of going about it. It may make it easier for 'average' people to understand. I still think it's mostly laziness though, a lot of people just aren't cognizant about safety until something bad happens. Muzzle discipline should be second nature. Not a big fan of chamber indicators for that reason. In my experience the more safety features something (machinery, tools, etc.) posses the lazier people act around it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZRH View Post
    That is an interesting philosophical way of going about it. It may make it easier for 'average' people to understand. I still think it's mostly laziness though, a lot of people just aren't cognizant about safety until something bad happens. Muzzle discipline should be second nature. Not a big fan of chamber indicators for that reason. In my experience the more safety features something (machinery, tools, etc.) posses the lazier people act around it.
    I agree totally. If you can't understand not pointing your muzzle at someone, you don't belong owning a weapon.

  3. #13
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    About the linked article-

    If Rule#1 is "All guns are always loaded" there is no "or alternatively". All guns are always loaded. No exception. There is no safely unloaded state.

    Cooper himself wrote that the Four Rules are actually Three Rules because "Do not point a firearms at anything you're not willing to destroy" also covers what's behind the target. So there are only Two Rules- "Don't Point, Don't Put Finger On Trigger.

    In actuality, it all boils down to "Do NOT point a firearm at anything you're not willing to destroy". Keeping your finger off the trigger is only to reduce chances of tragedy during those moments mistakes are made and that rule is violated. Note that it reduces, not eliminates. Even with the finger off the trigger, tragedy can strike if muzzle discipline isn't kept.

    I treat the muzzle of any firearm as if it were infinitely long and would hit people and cause harm if I were to sweep them and teach the same
    INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
    1. ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
    2. MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
    3. MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
    4. BOOM!
    5. HA-HA!!

    -WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    About the linked article-

    If Rule#1 is "All guns are always loaded" there is no "or alternatively". All guns are always loaded. No exception. There is no safely unloaded state.

    Cooper himself wrote that the Four Rules are actually Three Rules because "Do not point a firearms at anything you're not willing to destroy" also covers what's behind the target. So there are only Two Rules- "Don't Point, Don't Put Finger On Trigger.

    In actuality, it all boils down to "Do NOT point a firearm at anything you're not willing to destroy". Keeping your finger off the trigger is only to reduce chances of tragedy during those moments mistakes are made and that rule is violated. Note that it reduces, not eliminates. Even with the finger off the trigger, tragedy can strike if muzzle discipline isn't kept.

    I treat the muzzle of any firearm as if it were infinitely long and would hit people and cause harm if I were to sweep them and teach the same
    The 4 rules are redundant. They should be redundant. Safety practices should have layers and layers. Multiple mistakes should have to occur for anything bad to happen.

    I know its cliche but firearm safety is never something that is mastered; it can only be practiced.

  5. #15
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    This thread is trailing off course from the OP.

    But then the OP hasn't really been active in his own thread now has he?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBJones13 View Post
    The 4 rules are redundant. They should be redundant. Safety practices should have layers and layers. Multiple mistakes should have to occur for anything bad to happen.

    I know its cliche but firearm safety is never something that is mastered; it can only be practiced.
    I was only pointing out that human mind has difficulty lying to itself. And that some people don't treat all guns as if they are loaded, mainly because in the back of their mind they percieve an unloaded gun to be less dangerous. And so it is a natural progression of human thought to tack on the exception "unless you have verified that they are not loaded" to the first rule.

    This fatal mistake occurs to both the experienced and inexperienced gun handler. That article helps one understand why those who should know better have had ND's.

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