interesting PMC ammo problem

[Robb Jensen]

Are you talking current production? I know the OLD PMC had a great reputation. But the Current PMC in the Black/Gold box (.223) is fussy in my 20" bushmaster upper.

This new stuff is called PMC bronze (bronze and black box).........a lot of weak ammo out there no, just shot some Serbian M855 that wouldn't cycle a midlength AR (CMMG 14.5" bbl, DD upper receiver w/BCM M16 carrier w/CAR buffer).

[mark5pt56]

I recall shooting some of the old stuff through an Ultra Match that I had. It was amazingly accurate.

Speaking of weak, Radway. I don't know how and why they got/had it, a military unit showed up last year with a ton of it, wouldn't run the M4's at all.

[markm]

Yep!

Radway had some funky batches in there too! I saw that first hand.

+1 on the PMC Bronze... I don't have the box in front of me, but that's the stuff. The good thing is that I only had two boxes and can at least use the brass to make GOOD ammo!

The M855 is that Igman stuff isn't it? Ammoman has a bunch of that on his sight. I never liked M855 at all before... But now look what you have to pay to get Crappy import M855.

[Robb Jensen]

Radway Green is 5.56mm NATO downloaded to better run in the British SA80A2s. It'll run in ARs suppressed.

[markm]

Radway Green is 5.56mm NATO downloaded to better run in the British SA80A2s. It'll run in ARs suppressed.

You'd think that the downloaded M855 would still be hotter than a standard .223 load.... in other words, it shouldn't have any problems cycling a 20 Colt.

But we had bad short stroking issues with it. Several guys on TOS were suffering with it too, but not all of the Radway was problematic if I remember right.

[Robb Jensen]

You'd think that the downloaded M855 would still be hotter than a standard .223 load.... in other words, it shouldn't have any problems cycling a 20 Colt.

But we had bad short stroking issues with it. Several guys on TOS were suffering with it too, but not all of the Radway was problematic if I remember right.

It has NATO pressure but the pressure spikes very quickly then drops off very quickly and can't cycle some guns especially those with heavy buffers or midlength and rifle length ARs. I would very likely run in any AR with a Noveske KX3 or suppressor. IIRC my old 11.5" AR with KX3 ran it on fine. I still have about 2500 rounds of it and shoot it when shooting suppressed outdoors and it runs fine.

My old load for USPSA Production when I shot a Glock 34 and had a local ammo sponsor was a 147gr ZERO brand bullet in an undersized 9mm case (to prevent bullet setback which would blow up the gun) he used VihtaVuori N320 powder (sometimes N310) and a Federal match primer. The pressure level of the round exceeds SAAMI and probably NATO specs for pressure but it drops off before the slide even moves and shoots very softly. I ran a 13lb recoil spring (stock is 17lbs) and it felt like shooting CCI Velocitor or Stinger in a Ruger 22/45 pistol.

[markm]

Gotcha! Thanks.

I have a brother in law, new to ARs, who bought some of it. He had convinced himself that the short stroking was a lubrication problem. He wouldn't listen to me when I told him that others had complained about the same thing on the gun boards.

[rhino]

Even more interesting considering what creme-puff loads the American Eagle 55gr has been in the past...

What kind of velocities equate to creme-puff loads, by the way?

FWIW, I chrono'd some AE223 on 23-Aug-06 from a 14.5 inch Bushmaster:

Bushmaster, 14.5 inch barrel:
American Eagle AE223 55gr FMJ
Max Vel = 2990 f/s
Min Vel = 2896 f/s
Avg Vel = 2961.8 f/s ... PF = 162
SD = 30.9 f/s

Given that PMC 55gr .223 was notorious in the past for sometimes failing to make minor (when it was 160PF) in 16 inch rifles for a while, I'm guessing it must have been even creme-puffier.

The time period to which I refer was the mid to late 1990s. I know that Benny Hill failed to make the minor PF (160 then) using PMC 55gr at the 3-gun nationals one year during that time. I suspect that such occurances are a primary reason why the USPSA/IPSC PF for minor rifle was dropped to 150 a few years ago.

Which brings me to my point . . . in my experience and that of other shooters I knew, PMC 55gr was alway fairly wimpy, even compared to the other commerical .223 55gr loads (that does not include the no-longer-available-to-us-because-it's-military-surplus PMC M193 ammo ... that was excellent stuff!).

[twodollarbill]

Radway Green is 5.56mm NATO downloaded to better run in the British SA80A2s. It'll run in ARs suppressed.

I thought British ammo wasn't painted green as all their 5.56 was 62gr.
So if it was Green Tip, doesn't that mean it was loaded to US specs.
Or am I just brain farting this one!!!!

I saw that a couple of suppliers were running this stuff at $375/1000,
and discounted in bulk.
My entire supply of M855 is Winchester and I hate to shoot up.
So I thought about picking up some Radway for friends to shoot......

[Robb Jensen]

I thought British ammo wasn't painted green as all their 5.56 was 62gr.
So if it was Green Tip, doesn't that mean it was loaded to US specs.
Or am I just brain farting this one!!!!

The British SS109 round isn't green painted because they didn't have a 55gr round and 1x12 twist rifles to keep the SS109 from getting into. The green paint is put there to distinguish it from M193.