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Thread: Need help on picking a new upper - BCM or KAC?

  1. #21
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    I seriously doubt you would have to drop out of a class because of a hypothetical bolt break in a KAC, and I would never go to a training class without a complete back up no matter what I was running. Besides from all accounts you will get a gun from somewhere if you need one to finish the class.



    The spare bolts for the E3 are pricey....though I've never heard of a single bolt failure even in high round count guns. Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened but I wouldn't let it get in the way of getting the best gun available. There are many things that can go wrong on an AR. No one bats an eye running a rail with a proprietary wrench...what if your barrel nut comes loose?

  2. #22
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    The question that needs to be answered, as I see it:

    Less expensive but high quality "standard" rifle or more expensive non-standard (proprietary parts) rifle.

    Either are fine choices; depends on your POV/intended use.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullitt5172 View Post
    For this discussion, let's assume they cost the same amount. I'm not worried about the price difference, just want the best performance.
    well then I'll have no part in this discussion because what I spend money for is performance. if there are performance differences but can be made up by spending more money till they are roughly equivalent, then the choice boils down to other things.

    but if one is neither better nor worse at what it does than the other, and there is a difference in price, then the choice is simple.
    never push a wrench...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtdawg169 View Post
    Re: bolt failure

    KAC has stated that a standard bolt will function in the E3 barrel extension. In a pinch, you could always drop in a standard bolt, but KAC does not recommend it for long term use.

    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
    That's great info. Did not know that. Pretty much takes out the "proprietary parts" argument as the bolt is the acchilles heel of the AR platform.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

    -C S Lewis

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ra2bach View Post
    well then I'll have no part in this discussion because what I spend money for is performance. if there are performance differences but can be made up by spending more money till they are roughly equivalent, then the choice boils down to other things.

    but if one is neither better nor worse at what it does than the other, and there is a difference in price, then the choice is simple.
    I think you missed the point, I want the upper that will perform the best. I don't care if it's a few dollars more...so I said which is a better upper based on performance.

    ETA - I am agreeing with you. If they both performed the same and one was $300 less, it would indeed be a no-brainer!
    Full disclosure - I am an Engineering Supervisor at Trijicon, Inc.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullitt5172 View Post
    I think you missed the point, I want the upper that will perform the best. I don't care if it's a few dollars more...so I said which is a better upper based on performance.
    Congratulations on your purchase, you won't regret getting a KAC.
    Super lightweight and a low profile.
    Interested in seeing what you think of it once you receive it.

  7. #27
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    Yeah, I'm pretty sure anyone would go with the KAC uppper. I know I would

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belmont31R View Post
    I seriously doubt you would have to drop out of a class because of a hypothetical bolt break in a KAC, and I would never go to a training class without a complete back up no matter what I was running. Besides from all accounts you will get a gun from somewhere if you need one to finish the class.



    The spare bolts for the E3 are pricey....though I've never heard of a single bolt failure even in high round count guns. Not saying it can't happen or hasn't happened but I wouldn't let it get in the way of getting the best gun available. There are many things that can go wrong on an AR. No one bats an eye running a rail with a proprietary wrench...what if your barrel nut comes loose?
    You are absolutely correct, I was just throwing out a VERY extreme (albeit unlikely) scenario to illustrate the need for a backup. Be that an extra bolt or complete rifle, both of which are a good idea to have. For training purposes I bring two similar rifles and extra "common breakage" parts that could be interchanged into either rifle (an extra bolt, lower springs, pins, etc) and a few basic tools to conduct repairs. I just prefer a commonality of parts for my gear and is just my opinion.

    Now if the OP has the scratch, I'd say go with TWO KAC rifles... you know... just in case.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullitt5172 View Post
    I think you missed the point, I want the upper that will perform the best. I don't care if it's a few dollars more...so I said which is a better upper based on performance.

    ETA - I am agreeing with you. If they both performed the same and one was $300 less, it would indeed be a no-brainer!
    In fairness, I don't think anybody can say that KAC will "perform" better than BCM. What does "perform" mean? They will likely be equally reliable and equally accurate. In regards to weight, I am not sure KAC will definitely be lighter: it has lighter barrel profile and low-gas block, but BCM will have a shorter barrel with subsequent weight savings there. KAC is known for soft shooting properties, but midlength BCMs are very soft too. Last weekend I put 17 rounds (I don't know how to count) during VTAC 1-5 drill on 5 targets in just over 4 seconds; second time ever I ran that drill. This is with BattleComp, which is an option available when you buy EAG upper.

    I don't believe for a second that anybody can say that KAC upper will "outperform" BCM EAG upper with any verifiable performance measurement backing, and I don't believe that this discussion is about performance. If performance is at question, then data from EAG tests, the filthy 14 etc., backs BCM as second to none.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    In fairness, I don't think anybody can say that KAC will "perform" better than BCM. What does "perform" mean? They will likely be equally reliable and equally accurate. In regards to weight, I am not sure KAC will definitely be lighter: it has lighter barrel profile and low-gas block, but BCM will have a shorter barrel with subsequent weight savings there. KAC is known for soft shooting properties, but midlength BCMs are very soft too. Last weekend I put 17 rounds (I don't know how to count) during VTAC 1-5 drill on 5 targets in just over 4 seconds; second time ever I ran that drill. This is with BattleComp, which is an option available when you buy EAG upper.

    I don't believe for a second that anybody can say that KAC upper will "outperform" BCM EAG upper with any verifiable performance measurement backing, and I don't believe that this discussion is about performance. If performance is at question, then data from EAG tests, the filthy 14 etc., backs BCM as second to none.
    This is pretty much why I asked this question. IMO, there are no better uppers (for a battle rifle) on the market than BCM and KAC. If there was really a $300 difference between them I would tend to go towards the BCM as they both meet my "requirements". I have the opportunity to get a KAC upper for the same amount as the BCM and therefore the dicussion of whether or not the KAC offers anything over the BCM if they were the same price. Confusing, yes. Petty, yes. Believe me, I know it's a win/win decision. Just looking for opinions from those who have used these uppers and can give real input.
    Full disclosure - I am an Engineering Supervisor at Trijicon, Inc.

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